Episode Summary

On this episode of If Money Were Easy, Manisha Thakor takes listeners deep into the journey of self-discovery and emotional well-being, guiding them to find financial harmony and contentment in spite of what our complex world demands. Neela and Mary Beth explore with Manisha the importance of living an authentic life and taking time to recharge, as well as using that authentic self as a positive influence in the financial industry. Understanding what drives a toxic relationship with money is a crucial step towards making a change, along with how personal traumas, societal influences, cultural norms, and evolutionary biology shape our financial behaviors. Join us in this insightful conversation as we learn to cultivate our MoneyZen and establish true emotional well-being on our path towards financial peace!

For additional resources, information, and a full transcript of the episode, visit our website. To access our podcast disclosure information, visit this page.

What You’ll Learn in this Episode:

• The reason Manisha wrote MoneyZen: The Secret to Finding Your “Enough”
• How the endless pursuit of money can lead to burnout and exhaustion
• Why we must choose to “be” to live richer lives
• The importance of connection
• Identifying and understanding the sources of a toxic relationship with money
• The importance of self-reflection and emotional work for finding peace
• How social media can put a negative spin on income, wealth, and the role of money
• How the hungry ghost can impact your financial well-being
• Research explaining there is more to happiness than money
• Manisha’s personal experience on the need for transformation and balance

Resources Mentioned on the Show:

• MoneyZen website
• MoneyZen: The Secret to Finding Your “Enough” by Manisha Thakor

Stay Connected:

• Follow Manisha Thakor on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn
• Join the Abacus community by connecting with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mary Beth on Twitter, Instagram, and on LinkedIn
• Connect with Neela on Twitter, Instagram, and on LinkedIn

Transcript of the Episode

Mary Beth [00:00:14]:

Hey there. Welcome to the If Money Were Easy podcast, the show where we teach you how to expand what’s possible with your money. We’re your hosts, Mary Beth Storjohann – 

Neela [00:00:23]:

And Neela Hummel – 

Mary Beth [00:00:25]:

Certified financial planners and Co-CEOs of Abacus Wealth Partners. Today on the show, we are very excited to talk about finding your MoneyZen. But before we jump in, a brief disclosure from our compliance department. This podcast is for educational purposes and is not intended as investment, legal, or tax advice. Any opinion shared is not an opinion of Abacus Wealth Partners. 

Neela [00:00:50]:

So today on the show, we are joined by a very special guest, our good friend Manisha Thakor. She has worked in financial services for over 30 years with a focus on women’s economic empowerment. A nationally recognized thought leader around the issues of financial literacy and education, Manisha has been featured in national media such as The Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, Barons, CNN, and CNBC. She’s written two personal finance books for women in their twenties and thirties. Her latest book, MoneyZen: The Secret to Finding Your “Enough”, comes out on August 8th, 2023. Manisha earned her MBA from Harvard Business School, her BA from Wellesley College, and holds the CFA and CFP designations. Manisha, welcome to the show.

Manisha [00:01:38]:

Oh, I’m so excited to be on with the two of you.

Mary Beth [00:01:41]:

We are so excited to have you. And for those tuning in, I just want you to know that Neela and I both held up Manisha’s book to her and showed her how excited we were to have a copy and to talk about it today.

Neela [00:01:52]:

So much highlighting, so many pens. Run out and buy the book because it is amazing.

Mary Beth [00:01:57]:

It is amazing. So I did prep Manisha, and I said I was going to read her book back to her. I was going to quote one part of this to her, and so I just want to read this part. I literally wrote “read this.” I thought it was so profound, and would introduce us to the content around MoneyZen. “To put it simply, no matter how much money I earned, accomplishments I achieved, or praise I received, it was never enough to make me feel whole inside. I was stuck on the proverbial hamster wheel, running as hard as I could, but never arriving at the finish line. All this misguided energy resulted in working myself, quite literally, to the brink of death.” I mean, I read those words, this was just so profound and so going from this state, from what I just read, to a state of MoneyZen. Talk to us about that. What is MoneyZen?

Manisha [00:02:47]:

Well, MoneyZen is my phrase for a state of mind where you feel calm and confidence and clarity around your relationship with money and the role that money plays in your life. And in my case, when I was in the state where I was writing those words that you read, I was living in a mind space where I quite literally viewed my self-worth as equaling my net worth, which is an exceptionally toxic way to live your life for a variety of reasons, the least of which is there is no ending point. Somebody repeatedly asked John D. Rockefeller back years ago, how much is enough money? And he said, “Just a little bit more.”

 Neela [00:03:46]:

And if he didn’t have enough, the rest of us are toast or in so much trouble.

 Manisha [00:03:50]:

Well, and that’s what prompted me to go on this journey as I hit my fifties. And I realized, Dear Lord, I spent my entire adult life as a human doing, not a human being, not stupid. How did I end up in this place? And more importantly, what can I do to get out of it? And so I decided to go on a two year journey researching in a very multidisciplinary way the factors that can lead us to a never enough mindset and what kind of mindset could replace the never enough mindset. And when I was finished I thought, “Oh my gosh, this could be applied to people of any age or income or profession.” And so I felt called to put it down in a book and share it.

 Mary Beth [00:04:46]:

Love it. The idea of human doing versus human being was such an “aha” moment. Talk to us more about that and what that looks like in terms of being versus doing and how do we catch ourselves in that?

 Manisha [00:05:04]:

In general, in the Zeitgeist, there’s this belief that if we do X, we will have Y, and then we will be happy. And when you look at people and talk to people who are truly content now, they may be working with great joy, but they’re in a place of contentment. What you’ll observe is consciously or subconsciously they’ve got that pathway flipped. They’re starting from a place of “be” – “How do I want to be in this world? How do I want to feel? How do I want to show up as a human in this world? What are the characteristics of my character that I value and I want to share? And how do I want to take care of myself? How do I want to give back to the broader community?” So they’re starting with be, how do I want to be? And then that leads them to, “Well, what do I need to do in order to be this kind of person and be in the world this way?” And then it enables you to have whatever the universe deems is appropriate for the outcome of that chain reaction. But what is fascinating to me is inevitably people who go through life with that second set of stepping stones have such richer lives. Oftentimes, it’s literally richer lives and other times it’s figuratively richer lives. But I’ve yet to meet somebody who’s living from a place of be, do, have, who is not living like a human being.

 Neela [00:07:03]:

I love the focus of being more present because when we think about conflating our self-worth with our net worth, it’s like this future focus that you’re going to get there and then everything is going to just be different. Everything’s going to be fine but coming back to the present. And I think you talk about this in your book of what are the things that truly bring you joy? A hot cup of coffee at your favorite coffee shop? You don’t need a ton of money.

 Manisha [00:07:28]:

You know one of the experts that I so enjoyed interviewing, Mary Laverde. She now – I guess in this parlance we would call her a work life expert – but for several decades she ran the Hypertension Center at the University of Colorado. So she’s seeing people coming in with a lot of tension literally and speaking figuratively. And what she observed and what ultimately came to define her personal mantra was that healthy people have a unique relation to connection, that consciously or subconsciously what they are asking themselves is in this present moment, “If I feel disease in this present moment, to whom or to what do I need to be connected to inch my way or step closer to joy and happiness?” And it may be a conversation with a friend. It may be just smiling at the cashier as you’re checking out. It may be that you need to take a nap or eat a piece of fudge. It could be a wide range of things. But to whom or what do I need to connect when I am feeling off kilter was the behavioral pattern that she observed with healthy individuals as opposed to those struggling with hypertension and that led her to a mantra ‘connection creates balance.’ And I think the magic of that is not only is it true that connection craves balance but needless to your point, it puts you in the present.

 Neela [00:09:25]:

Right, with the things that really, really connect, the things that actually can meaningfully change your emotional wellness.

 Manisha [00:09:33]:

Absolutely. And I think we often hear “the best things in life are free,” and intellectually I think we know they are like love and friendship and compassion and caring. But I think we dramatically undervalue the role that these qualities and feelings can play in enhancing our life satisfaction. And I like to call that your emotional wealth because so often we think about that life satisfaction in terms of things or nowadays if we think about the tragic, I’ll call it submarine, for lack of a better word, faux submarine heading down to the Titanic – now we have really extravagant experiences. And so the point is not that you don’t need to have those things in your life because, of course, that brings joy for a lot of us at different levels, but that we don’t put enough value on some of these intangible emotions.

 Mary Beth [00:10:42]:

In your book, you talk a lot about your own personal journey towards MoneyZen. What was that like for you to begin to put value? What was your experience and how did you learn to begin to put emphasis on the emotional health as opposed to these other areas, the tangibles?

 Manisha [00:11:00]:

So in the beginning, it was not easy, and I fought it hard. I started off with the piece of how did I get here? And what’s interesting is when you write, people always want like, what are your top three tips? People want to go right to the end. What are your top three tips for achieving MoneyZen? But the magic in this is, first, understanding how you got there. And what I learned is it’s not a linear process. It’s like a Rubik’s cube, but just like a Rubik’s cube has certain colors to it. There are really four broad lanes. I call them personal small traumas, societal influences, cultural norms, and, believe it or not, evolutionary biology. And what I find is for anyone who ends up having a toxic relationship with money, work, accomplishments, and success, there is something in one of those four buckets that’s driving it. And for most of us, it’s a combination at varying levels that are in those buckets. And so the first step on the journey was learning this information from the amazing array of subject matter experts, interviewing everyone from economists to evolutionary biologists, and understanding this. But understanding and then making change are two different things, because understanding requires not just the knowledge, but the application of the knowledge. And it’s really painful sometimes as you strip back the layers to look at, for instance, the things in your life that were small ‘t’ traumas or the behaviors that you’re not proud of, that you engaged in, because you were influenced by society and culture or some of the really self-destructive things that you did to your health and well-being as a result of evolutionary biological drivers that are still in our brains. Because as much as we’ve evolved as humans, our brains haven’t changed quite as fast. And so what I like to tell people is 80% of the journey to getting to MoneyZen, the solution is understanding your unique source of the problem.

 Neela [00:13:41]:

There’s no quick fix. I mean, you think about it from a physical health standpoint. I understand that the chocolate that I eat every night is probably not the thing that is going to contribute to the six pack abs. I know that. But doing that is very different. And I love that there isn’t this easy fix that you do, and it’s going to be personal, lots to unpack in terms of what you’ve gone through from a personal standpoint. And also the messages that society is giving us. I think one of the things that popped out to me was this idea of materialism that we have in our culture and these fictional financial archetypes of people that we’re measuring ourselves against and how it’s almost like society is actively working against our MoneyZen.

 Manisha [00:14:29]:

Literally that is what’s happening, particularly in TV and media relative to the kinds of shows you might have seen back in the early days of TV. And let’s call it the – we live in a world where we are bombarded with images of everyday normal human beings, teachers, policemen, physicians assistants, who in the shows are portrayed as having certain possessions, cars, homes, clothes, and engaging in a certain lifestyle. Expensive drinks after work, wearing clothes and grooming to a level that, you know, if you run the numbers, is going to be costly. And yet that is portrayed as what normal is. And so one of the things I did in researching the book was try and put some numbers to that. And I picked various different characters out of TV shows and tried to look at the average incomes for those professions. And then I assumed those people were really good. So I upped that income and even.

 Mary Beth [00:15:45]:

Put them in the top tier.

 Manisha [00:15:46]:

Top tier. These are top tier folks. And even then what I found was they would have to earn 30% to 50% more to live the lifestyles that are being portrayed. And yet those jobs don’t pay those incomes.

 Mary Beth [00:16:05]:

Right.

 Manisha [00:16:06]:

And so when we see those images all over the place, not to mention the curated lifestyles we see on social media, it makes us feel that we should be able to live that way. And then with easy access to credit, we can live that way. And maybe even more destructively, it makes us feel ‘less than’ if we’re not living that way.

 Mary Beth [00:16:32]:

Yes, exactly. I remember in college, Sex in the City was so big. Carrie Bradshaw. Carrie Bradshaw is a journalist in New York City. Living the dream, right? And so even going to school for financial services, majoring in financial planning and thinking, watching the show and being consumed by all of the sexiness and drinks and fabulous fashion and thinking how is this possible? And it’s so interesting as your brain evolves and you’re trying to emulate it in some ways, but you also know there’s a disconnect. And it’s really interesting how our brains work and the conflict, the conflict in there. And then trying to live it out, trying to stay present in our lives. I think going through this journey and being aware of it, it’s never ending knowing this because it’s almost easy to do this work and to find out our stories and to find the MoneyZen. But it takes work to stay in the MoneyZen place. Because as much as we would love to tune out all media, all social media, all of those influences, we are exposed to it every day, every time we turn around in a variety of areas. And so talk to us a little bit about the hungry ghost and how that can creep back in and how we get to put it in the closet or go away.

 Manisha [00:17:48]:

Yeah, so the hungry ghost is a really beautiful Buddhist concept that there are hungry ghosts that walk amongst us and they have very thin throats as small as a needle, and they crave love and connection and understanding, but they can never get enough because their throats are the size of needles. And that’s what we are. We’re hungry ghosts. As we go through modern society and try and fill ourselves with a sense of wholeness, a sense of I’m worthy by having a certain income, having a certain title, wearing certain clothes, having a certain size house in a specific neighborhood, taking certain types of vacations, and it’s never ending because you can always up the ante. There’s always something more, and it’s not just in the area of possessions. So when I finished writing the book, I felt this unbelievable sense of transformation and ease, and I decided to dramatically change my professional and personal life, the cadence of it and where it would be and what I would do with my time. And I had a little bit of a break and then we started up with the marketing for the book. Well, marketing is just like trying to keep up with the latest fashion trends. You can never do enough interviews, radio interviews, TV interviews, podcasts, speaking events. And I have to be honest, just a couple of weeks ago I broke down. I mean, I was just in tears. I can’t do this anymore. My body physically can’t do this anymore. I can’t turn it off. And I feel like I have to keep doing it more. And I had like three pages of to-do lists, like what I needed to do for events, what I needed to do on social media, what I needed to do for all these elements of marketing. And it was when I hit that wall and I was crying and I could barely stay awake, that I realized, “Oh my gosh, I am right back on that hamster wheel again.” But I was able to get off of it a lot quicker. Not immediately, but I was able to stop and say, “Okay, I’m tying my self-worth now to the number of copies of books that are going to be purchased. That’s ridiculous. I wrote this book to help people. If it’s meant to help people, it’ll go help people, right?” And then when I realized my ‘self-worth equals’ equation was off balance, I was able to remind myself, which is the point of the book, what’s the better way to optimize my time in my life? If we want to think about it in financial terms, what’s the right asset allocation between financial health, which we could also call maybe professional success and emotional wealth, our personal lives. And my asset allocation had gotten out of whack. And just like we do in client portfolios where we rebalance, I needed to rebalance. So I think that’s an ongoing practice and that’s why thinking about this not as a solution – it’s why I so resist when people ask me, “What are three tips to achieve?” It’s not a solution. It’s giving yourself a new mental model to follow and guide the way you choose to allocate your single most limited resource, which is time.

 Neela [00:21:35]:

Right? It’s so powerful Manisha because so often people are like, “What is the destination?” And you really focus on the journey. And also what I think the book does a phenomenal job of is acknowledging all of our imperfections that it’s not like once you’ve gotten this magic information, it’s never going to happen. You fell back in the same historical patterns that you knew weren’t serving you, but you were able to kind of recognize it earlier and start making the changes that you needed. So what are some other practical tips that you can give people – not in the download top three kind of ways –

 Manisha [00:22:13]:

Right, right.

 Neela [00:22:13]:

In terms of recognizing when a particular pattern isn’t serving you. How do you make that shift? How do you kind of get over that hump into making a change?

 Manisha [00:22:24]:

I feel like you recognize it when, as Mary Beth started off with my description, this feeling that you’re on this never enough treadmill. But two other ways that I think you recognize is when you feel like the answer to whatever it is that is ailing you is more, do more, be more. Like when more starts coming into your head that should be a flashing neon sign that something’s going on. And the other one is, I find, when you feel that you are tormented by your to-do list. And that’s another very tangible example that you are falling into this dangerous space. And I think one of the ways to step out of it at a very first starting point is to do two things. One is with whatever it is that’s making you feel like you can’t do enough of it, you need to do more of it. Reaching out from the pages of your to-do list and grabbing your neck is to ask the question, “For what?” And ask it five times. This thing that I’m supposed to do is stressing me out. “For what? What am I doing this for? Really? For what?” And maybe sometimes you have to intersperse “For what?’ with “Why?” But if you go down five or so layers, you’ll start to identify why it is that you are off kilter with this particular situation or item. And sometimes you will find out that you’re off kilter for the right reason. It’s because you really want to develop this skill. You really want to contribute something to this organization, be it for profit nonprofit. You really want to help your children with this thing, but then you need to turn to something else into the “For what?” and the “Why?” so that you can have the space to engage in what really matters. And if you need a big wake up call for some of the big buckets where this can occur, I encourage people to think, “What if you wake up one morning and you’re told, “Hey, here’s $50 million after tax. Do whatever you want with it, but, hey, by the way, you got five years to live?”” So now you have unlimited resources and extremely limited time, and then you ask yourself, “What do I want to stop doing? And what do I want to start doing?” And the answers to that will start giving you some guidance on where, from a big picture standpoint, you want to be thinking about shifting your time allocation.

 Neela [00:25:25]:

How big of a rebalance do we need?

 Manisha [00:25:28]:

Precisely. 

Mary Beth [00:25:30]:

I was laughing as you were sharing the “For what?” and “Why?”, because Neela and I actually had a conversation, and I know she was probably smiling, too. We had a conversation last week, I believe. We were chatting about a personal topic, and she literally put her chin on her hand and said, “And why? But why do you need that? But why?” And I was like, “Oh, this is very uncomfortable.” I was very uncomfortable. My body reacted. And then we were laughing about it. Now, over the past few times we’ve talked about it, but it put me on the spot, and it was uncomfortable to think about. Why was this stress coming up and what was the root cause of it? And so it’s not comfortable work. It’s hard work. But to get to this idea, this other side of peace, the journey is necessary. Otherwise, like you said, we break ourselves physically and emotionally. When our emotional health deteriorates, it impacts us physically, and it’s not an optimal way to live our lives.

Manisha [00:26:24]:

No, I mean, when I put it in financial terms, I think the book is really intended for those of us who need a brand new investment policy statement for how we want to live our lives. Like, got to throw the old one out. 

Mary Beth [00:26:41]:

That’s such my language. 

Manisha [00:26:43]:

And then the process of maintaining it is where we take a look at the bands that we set around an asset class. So sometimes it has to be a fairly significant shift. There’s a big move in the market, or sometimes it’s a smaller band around a very specific “How much in small caps do you want to have?” And so it’s a little more of a shaving on the edges. But I think there are very strong parallels between finding your MoneyZen and thinking about the way you deal with a portfolio. 

Neela [00:27:40]:

Oh, my God. The visual in my mind is exploding right now where I’m thinking, “Okay, instead of U.S. large cap stocks, we’re talking about family and instead of U.S. small cap stocks, we’re talking about time with friends and all these different pieces.” You know, I think you also hit this point where, look, we’re not Pollyanna. Obviously, you need some financial health. You need to be making decisions that allow you to support yourself, support your family, and hopefully putting a little aside for future you. And so you need that, but you need both. You need the financial health and you need the emotional health. And that, oftentimes, we put so much energy on the financial health that the emotional health is what’s paying the price. 

Manisha [00:28:01]:

Well, and one piece of research came out relatively recently from Penn that I just found fascinating. I think all three of us are of the age where we’ve heard that oft-quoted stat that $75,000 is the amount you need to be happy. And anybody living on the East or West Coast is rolling their eyeballs, especially if they’ve got a family. But I think most of us inherently felt that there was something off with that. And it’s an old study, so even if we inflation adjusted that $75,000 to whatever it would be today, what the research showed is the study is still wrong. And it’s not because the number is too low. It’s because in the absence of a foundation of financial well-being, once you have achieved financial health, which I’ll just quickly read, I love this definition from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. They call it “effectively managing your economic life, having financial security and freedom of choice in present and future. So once you’ve achieved financial health, having more money coming into your life above and beyond that is not going to increase your life satisfaction if you don’t have a base of emotional well-being to play with it on.” And so I think that’s just a very powerful piece of research that really reinforces what I think a lot of us sensed gutturally. 

Neela [00:29:41]:

Right. And again, the focus on the dollars, everyone’s like, “It’s the dollar. It’s a magic dollar.” Because then you’re there and it’s like, “Great.” But it’s not just.

Manisha [00:29:49]:

You know, there is a YouTube, or I think it’s on YouTube and Instagram right now, reel of – oh my God, now I literally am having a senior moment. Last name is Carrey. Jim Carrey. 

Mary Beth [00:30:04]:

Jim Carrey. 

Manisha [00:30:06]:

So it’s short. And he basically is saying, “You know, you’re not going to ever hear probably another actor say this.” And I think he meant of his ilk and stature and he was saying, “But I’m done making movies. Unless something comes along that just lights me up, I’m done. And you know why? Because I have enough.” And this thing is going viral. And the way he says I have enough, it’s so clear. He’s not just talking about his bank balance, right? 

Mary Beth [00:30:45]:

Yeah. 

Neela [00:30:46]:

It’s so powerful. Oh, my gosh. One thing to just before we head into our closing questions that I want to hit on is, you’re always somebody that I’ve admired professionally. I think you have done so many wonderful things for financial services, from a focus on education and giving back and specifically with your work on women, and to see somebody like you, who has done so much for this world and has accomplished so much, and to be giving back again and be sharing the way you did in such a real, raw way that I feel like it just spoke right to my heart. As Mary Beth mentioned, many of our listeners also likely suffer from workaholism and perfectionism. This is a book that the world needs. 

Manisha [00:31:33]:

I can’t thank you enough. And one of the things I very nervously but deliberately did, I realize we learn through story. And if I preach about the research – which there’s plenty of that in the book – but I don’t put it into context, it’s not going to resonate. And so this is the most raw, candid, and intimate I have ever been in my professional life with the stories that I share throughout the book to illustrate what I’m talking about. And so, again, I feel like it is something that can help people of such a wide range of incomes, ages, and professions. And I think it’ll also hopefully inspire people to have those kinds of conversations with the right people. You need to have them in a safe space, because that’ll also – again, connection creates balance. Sharing at that level will help you move towards MoneyZen. 

Mary Beth [00:32:33]:

Yeah. And I second everything Neela said. I’ve known you for, I don’t know how long we’ve been connected at this point in time, but is it a decade long? It’s been a while. 

Manisha [00:32:42]:

I think it’s over a decade now. 

Mary Beth [00:32:44]:

I think we’re at a decade. And I love the book for all of the stories. And I want you to know that there are women out there, especially in the industry, who notice how you live your life authentically, how you’ve gone on your own journey. I love when I hear from you in your newsletter, and I love when it’s silent because I know you’re taking time for yourself. I know that you’re recharging, and that’s inspiring to me because you’re not going to put content out just to put content out. You put out really thoughtful content or sharing something that is meaningful. And you have modeled that over the years throughout your own career journey, and seeing where you have traveled to, and the positions that you’ve held and where your work has taken you, it has been amazing to watch. And just when I posted on Instagram last week and just said, not only is this book about living an authentic life, but I want you to know that you model that also for so many in our industry. And that’s been really inspiring to see. 

Manisha [00:33:32]:

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Mary Beth [00:33:35]:

We needed to fangirl about Manisha to her face because we did it a lot over the past week. 

Neela [00:33:39]:

She needs to know she’s a really big deal. 

Mary Beth [00:33:41]:

So take that time. 

Manisha [00:33:44]:

Let me just say one last thing before we hit questions. The very end of the book is called Permission to Achieve Less. And what Mary Beth is describing in terms of the cadence in which I am now living is a manifestation of that. And when I first heard the two words “achieve less” I almost dry heaved. Like, I thought, “Who the heck wants to aim for that?” And that’s where the book ends, is giving ourselves that permission to achieve less in different seasons of life or weeks of the year or hours of the day. And that’s a very powerful tool because it’s in the spaces that we become present to bring us back to the very beginning. And that’s where the joy in life is, is in the present. 

Mary Beth [00:34:42]:

Here, here. Love it. 

Neela [00:34:44]:

Well, I feel like we could talk to you for hours, but we also want to give you the ability to achieve less, which is maybe fewer podcasts, shorter podcasts. And so we’ll keep running with that. So we’d love to turn to just our three closing questions. What is the best financial advice you ever received?

Manisha [00:35:04]:

Live within your means. That’s the foundation for everything. Gives you the money to save. Invest for the future. You’re not drowning in credit card debt. You won’t look like anyone else or very many other people if you live within your means. But I did that starting in my 20s, right out of college, and it was a game changer.

Mary Beth [00:35:24]:

Love it. Wonderful. What would you say is your favorite money mistake you’ve made and why? 

Manisha [00:35:31]:

Well, I don’t know that I would call it favorite, but I engaged in tax loss harvesting during the ‘08, ‘09 period, and I was selling off mutual funds, and I wanted to be a perfectionist, so I wanted to be very precise with the amount of dollars that I was going to reinvest. And because it was a different fund family, I couldn’t do a simple swap. And so I said, “Once I see the settlement amount, then I’ll reinvest.” And stuff in life happened, and I didn’t have a chance to reinvest for five days. Well, guess what? In one of those five days, or two, actually, of those five days, we got 80% of the year’s market return. Let me just say, that was a whopping expensive mistake because I didn’t just sell a tiny bit of my portfolio. So I’ve never forgotten that one. 

Neela [00:36:26]:

Market timing. We know it. Don’t do it even accidentally. 

Manisha [00:36:30]:

Yes, exactly. 

Neela [00:36:33]:

Okay, final question. Fill in the blank. If money were easy… 

Manisha [00:36:37]:

There would be so much less stress in the world. 

Mary Beth [00:36:47]:

Manisha, we loved having you as a guest. Thank you for taking the time to spend with us. Tell our listeners where they can find you on the Internet, how to access your book, buy a copy. 

Manisha [00:36:58]:

So my home base, I like to keep things simple, is moneyzen.com and you can find everything there – all my social links to all sorts of resources that I like to put out. I try and keep curated lists of the best things I am reading and seeing both on the financial health and the emotional wealth side and you can buy the book anywhere. And if you are listening to this before the end of August, you can go to moneyzenbook.com for a short period of time where you’ll get a little bit more information, you can get some advanced chapters and a couple of videos of me interviewing different folks. So yeah, either moneyzen.com or moneyzenbook.com before the end of August.

Neela [00:37:47]:

Thank you, Manisha. Such a joy.

Mary Beth [00:37:48]:

Thank you.

Manisha [00:37:49]:

Neela and Mary Beth it is great to see you both. Thank you for having me on. Here’s to your MoneyZen. 

Mary Beth [00:37:56]:

Thank you.

Neela [00:37:59]:

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