Episode Summary

In today’s episode Mary Beth and Neela dive into the unique financial and societal challenges that young men face today. From the significance of developing strong social and emotional skills to understanding the difference between investing and gambling, this episode offers actionable insights and personal anecdotes. The hosts discuss societal pressures on young men during their “grind years,” emphasizing the value of patience and face-to-face social interactions. They share personal stories from their own experiences raising children, highlighting the importance of early financial education and emotional awareness. The conversation also touches on gender-specific financial teachings, the balance between societal expectations and personal values, and the importance of open communication in relationships. Tune in to learn how to cultivate these skills in your children, and how to help them grow up to be well-rounded and financially savvy individuals.

What You’ll Learn in this Episode:

• Some of the social and emotional challenges that young men face today
• Why those face-to-face interactions are so crucial in developing social skills
• Comparing communication skills and regular exercise
• The importance of teaching children about emotional awareness at a young age
• Some societal norms that impact how men respond in relationships and around money
• Understanding the financial aspect when choosing your life partner
• Comparing and contrasting gambling and long-term investing
• The one thing most people need when it comes to their finances in this fast-paced world
• How your financial behaviors can impact and influence your children’s financial behaviors
• Why it is critical to understand privilege and how to use it positively
• How a lesson on gratitude can benefit your little ones

Resources Mentioned on the Show:

• Behind Many Powerful Women on Wall Street: A Doting ‘Househusband’ By Miriam Gottfried in The Wall Street Journal
• Episode 55: Money Lessons for Our Daughters
• Episode 56: Navigating Parents’ Aging & Financial Care: Lessons from A Personal Journey with Kathryn Peyton

Stay Connected:

• Connect with Mary Beth on Twitter, Instagram, and on LinkedIn
• Connect with Neela on Twitter, Instagram, and on LinkedIn
• Join the Abacus community by connecting with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and on LinkedIn

Transcript of the Episode

Mary Beth [00:00:14]:

Hey there. Welcome to the If Money Were Easy podcast, the show where we teach you how to expand what’s possible with your money. We’re your hosts, Mary Beth Storjohann 

Neela [00:00:24]:

and Neela Hummel, 

Mary Beth [00:00:25]:

certified financial planners & Co CEOs of Abacus Wealth Partners. Today on the show, we are talking about money lessons for our sons. Welcome, Nee.

Neela [00:00:37]:

Welcome, Mary Beth. 

Mary Beth [00:00:39]:

It’s good to have you here. Nee’s got a little raspy thing going on today. She sounds great. 

Neela [00:00:43]:

I’m trying on my, like, Toni Braxton voice. Let me know how it’s landing. I told Mary Beth I just don’t have time to be sick, so I’m going to pretend that I’m not sick. 

Mary Beth [00:00:52]:

Are we allowed to talk about the whole ensemble you have going on though, with the voice paired with the Halloween costume? Should we talk about that or are we gonna leave it? 

Neela [00:00:59]:

Please. I have no shame. 

Mary Beth [00:01:00]:

Neela is dressed in a pink elf costume today because it is Halloween. We are recording this on Halloween, but it is a glorious, amazing ensemble paired with the raspy Toni Braxton voice. So it’s a whole. It’s a whole get up today. 

Neela [00:01:13]:

It’s a whole vibe. As I said to the guy, I brought donuts into the office today because I’m a monster. But at the donuts shop… 

Mary Beth [00:01:20]:

It’s amazing. No monsters. 

Neela [00:01:20]:

No. At the donut shop, he was like, happy Halloween. I like. I dress like this every day. Let’s be honest. 

Mary Beth [00:01:28]:

It’s just so great. I think it’s so, like, just like the human elf component. I feel it’s good for those who don’t know Nee’s tall. Nee’s tall. So if you don’t know Neela is tall.

Neela [00:01:38]:

I’m like a very, very giant elf. Nearly six foot tall elf. So from like the elf movie. So special nod to Will Ferrell. 

Mary Beth [00:01:47]:

Yeah. I think we should just do a photo of this today, your outfit. And we should put that live with this podcast. Just like, you know, it could just go in the notes, I think, so I’ll throw that in there. I think it’s good. I think it’s more personable, very accessible. It’s okay. I’ll be dressed as a cheerleader later. So we’re good. Okay. Which I have no gymnastics skills at all, so please don’t ask me to do anything. I can do a summersault. 

Neela [00:02:08]:

Plus we’re over 40. Don’t break your hip. 

Mary Beth [00:02:10]:

Plus we’re over 40 and everything hurts. Bought myself a thera gun. I think that means I’m 40. Okay. Money, lessons, for our son. So a few weeks ago we talked about money lessons for our daughters and wanted to make sure we wrap it up. So Nee and I both have the benefit. We have both genders in our, in our homes and so wanted to make sure we address for our sons as well. I think there’s interesting dynamics. There are obviously money stresses that everybody experiences, but there are certain stresses that and experiences or societal beliefs that are impressed upon each gender. So we wanted to hit on those today. And as we’re teaching our sons about money, which again, my son is seven, will be seven in a couple weeks. So, you know, thinking of them as they’re growing up and what we’d want them to know. 

Neela [00:02:52]:

I’ve got a 8 year old and an almost 6 year old. So we’re right in there. They’re on the younger side. They’re right at the age where an allowance starts to make sense as you’re kind of starting to build the foundation for financial literacy. And as we were prepping for both this session and the last session, there’s a fair degree of overlap of this is the kind of financial advice that we just want everyone to have. But then a special path that addresses, I think a lot of the history, a lot of the stereotypes, a lot of the unique pressures that might hit one gender versus another. 

Neela [00:03:26]:

Yep. So where would you start? Where would you start for your boys? 

Neela [00:03:29]:

So I think one of the biggest things we were talking about this a little before and I actually think that there is a tremendous amount of pressure on young men right now. I think men like in their late teens, twenties, early thirties is I think, very challenging for. I mean, I think it’s challenging across the board, but I think it’s, it’s uniquely challenging for young men right now. And why is that? I think A. There is, I think a little bit less willingness or comfort in talking about the pressures. I think in terms of like sharing some of the pressures they’re going through. 

Mary Beth [00:04:06]:

Right. 

Neela [00:04:07]:

These are the hard earning years. Right. These are like the grind years where you’re working super hard, you’re working on growing your income. You might not be seeing the best results of that because you’re in it. And then I think on top of that, we’ve read all about an epidemic of loneliness and isolation and how dating has gotten challenging and that there’s so much comparison out there. And so as there may be dating and starting to date around, maybe some of the best bits for them in a relationship standpoint aren’t looking at them because they’re in those grind years, they’re looking at people who are a little, you know, one level up.

 Mary Beth [00:04:46]:

Right. So what would you say then? It is a hard time. I mean, we’re seeing articles on it maybe once every other month. Something’s coming out and it is addressing this, this demographic, this age group, the isolation, the dropping out of school that’s happening, or like a little bit of languishing. The languishing that can happen during this age. And so what would you say, what would you say to your son? How would you help them to navigate through that phase of life? Because we’re seeing it. I mean, I can see it in my family. I’m sure you can see it in yours in different areas as well.

 Neela [00:05:19]:

I think two things. One, don’t fear the grind, that like hard work, working towards what you want is always going to pay off. And you might not see it when you’re in it, but don’t fear the grind. And the second piece I would say is don’t play the comparison game because we have so much information now, especially with the advent of social media, where it’s easy to compare yourself to someone and feel like you are behind. And so the more you compare, the more you can feel like you’re behind and the more it’ll really, I think, undercut a lot of the good progress that you’re making, even if it’s not terribly visible. Those are two main points that I would hit. What about you?

 Mary Beth [00:05:57]:

I think not fearing the grind. I think there’s something to be said which is funny. I work from home on Zoom, but from getting out from behind your screens, there’s the isolation component and then there’s the social skills. It’s kind of like this trickle down effect. So if you’re isolated, you don’t have the social skills. So when you get out, it’s a little bit awkward. You don’t know how to converse with a job. And so it’s like this foundational building skills that I think this kind of age group is lost in because they are behind screens, they have video games, they had to do school from a home.And so they’re losing out on these formative years of being out in the community, out in an environment where they’re having personal interactions. And so I would say don’t underestimate the benefits of face to face community and face to face connection and relationships. And I know that’s just something that the age group goes through. I mean, it really starts to happen in your teens and then goes into your 20s. But this idea of like you’re always on screens and when you’re living your life behind a screen, you end up becoming a little bit more detached and withdrawn. And it can I think, set you back in ways, in terms of communication. And I, I think that’s, it’s more of a generalization. Plenty of people are successful from, from behind their screens. But I do see, especially for this group when it comes to fulfillment in their lives, in order to have a happy, successful relationship, if you do want to have a partner, you, you will have to get out. Right. You will have to interact with somebody. You could go back behind your screen for a job potentially, but you will need to interact face to face. If you want the partnership, if you want the family kind of component, you have to do some in person actions to get out there. So I think that’s the thing that I see is the social skills that can long term impact your financial situation. So encouraging people to take the risk, encouraging family members, kids in your lives to get out. And I know plenty of parents are already doing that, trying to get their kids out of the house, but figuring out a way to connect or hold firm boundaries. You know, if it was my child, I would probably set some firm boundaries on expectations in terms of what’s expected if you’re home. Like where do you contribute, who are you socializing with? Are making sure there’s, there’s some sort of activities.

 Neela [00:07:57]:

I love that point so much because it’s introducing this idea of social interaction and improving communication as building blocks. 

Mary Beth [00:08:05]:

Right. 

Neela [00:08:06]:

It’s rare that you just come out and are really good at those things. Like you kind of have to work at them. And some people, it might come more naturally, but we all need practice at things. It’s like learning a language. If you’re not practicing it, it’s going to deteriorate. So thinking about that communication muscle, thinking about the social interaction muscle is something that like does need to be cultivated and that you obviously get the psychological benefit down the road. 

Mary Beth [00:08:31]:

Yep. Yeah. And I know I go emotional for some of this stuff too, but I think a lot of like that practice, it can start at a young age too in terms of like communication, in terms of understanding feelings and emotions and being able to identify and talk about them. I’m sure you do with your kids too. Like how are you feeling? Like what’s going on? You know, taking deep breaths and understanding. And it’s very interesting for me just in my house and I know this is just happens to be how it is. It’s not like a standard across homes. But Ellie is kind of very open to talking about feelings. And that’s just the natural assumption. Societal expectation is that girls will share. And Luca gets very upset and I’m like, are you feeling angry? I don’t want to talk about it. He won’t say the feelings. And so we have to do feeling charts. And he is angry and he holds it in, you know, and so we continue to work on it. But I think that those social skills, like those building blocks of being able to identify how am I feeling self awareness again, he’s almost 7. We got time. But it’s interesting from those dynamics of just kind of making those steps and it’s almost like he views it as a bad thing to be able to say, you know, I’m angry or I’m sad and 

Neela [00:09:32]:

Right 

Mary Beth [00:09:33]:

You know, I’m happy or something. So it’s an interesting dynamic though. But I think that’s one of the things that we can do for our sons to enhance them in terms of their financial futures is having them to have more self-awareness across the board in terms of like, how am I feeling? I’m working through those things.

Neela [00:09:48]:

Right.

Mary Beth [00:09:48]:

The societal expectations on men are that they don’t talk about their feelings, they don’t talk about things. And that can really impact you long term in terms of the comparison games. Those things can filter in from a career process, like a family process, et cetera. So I do think the self-awareness and starting that at a young age can really help them in terms of understanding their feelings, also understanding their impulses to spend where those are coming from, what are you trying to fill so it’s not going to get solved overnight. Adult people are still working on these things as well, but the earlier we start with them, the better.

 Neela [00:10:17]:

Well, and we see how important that is from a communication standpoint with relationships, that if you are feeling these feelings and you’re not communicating it and then you partner up with someone, that’s a recipe for disaster.

 Mary Beth [00:10:30]:

Right. Exactly. 

Neela [00:10:30]:

You have to be able to talk about these things and we talk a lot about marriage and who you partner up with is actually probably one of the biggest financial decisions you’ll ever make. 

Mary Beth [00:10:41]:

Right. 

Neela [00:10:41]:

Who you partner up with and the direction that you as a unit take is a huge variable. Do you have someone who’s going to support your career aspirations? Do you have someone who you’re going to be able to talk about these different areas with? Do you mentioned spending? Do you have someone who has wildly different spending, saving, credit usage patterns than you do like all of that stuff. None of it is necessarily wrong. It’s about how do we meet in the middle to make better financial decisions together and recognizing that marriage. Yes, about love is also a financial transaction because you’re becoming a family unit.

Mary Beth [00:11:16]:

Yes, absolutely. You know, one of the things that just came up for me and thinking about my nephews and money lessons and this idea of that we see again, kind of in this age group we’re talking about 20 somethings. There is no quick fix for your finances. If there is a guarantee, if there is some sort of quick fix, it is likely a gamble, I would say. But there’s a difference between gambling and steady long-term investing.

Neela [00:11:43]:

Right. 

Mary Beth [00:11:43]:

And I think that gets confused and lost into translation for young men today, especially with things like Robinhood or Meme stocks and those that get caught up. And I think the difference between gambling and long-term investing and wealth growth and wealth creation is really important to hit on. 

Neela [00:12:02]:

Yeah 

Mary Beth [00:12:03]:

What that looks like and what that means.

Neela [00:12:05]:

Which when we talk about the grind, right, the grind of the decade of the 20s, it’s being comfortable with the patience. It’s sitting through that. It’s embodying that patience of knowing that you’re doing good work and yet you haven’t seen the immediate impacts of that work. 

Mary Beth [00:12:24]:

Yeah, I think that’s a big one. Patience is hard. Our generation is the last one who kind of grew up without Internet. I remember when dial, when AOL came out and I remember waiting patiently. But there was, there was a time when there was no Internet. I literally had encyclopedias. I had to look things up and the book, not go to Google, not now. We have ChatGPT. And so I think this immediate quick fix teaching patience for this generation is so much different and more difficult, I imagine than during a time when we did just move at a slower pace. And I think we were talking when we did Kathryn’s episode just prior to this one, talking about this idea of this generation that’s like people just sitting out on a porch having long conversations just into the evening. Right. No screens. That’s. There was no passing your time with television or computer games or phones. But the idea of patience I think is a really interesting one to navigate.

Neela [00:13:14]:

I think we should also note too whether you’re raising sons or daughters, but how much kids really pick up on what they see and observe in their household. 

Mary Beth [00:13:23]:

Yes. 

Neela [00:13:23]:

Again, if you’re modeling the conversations with your spouse, kids see that they experience it. I have a really funny story. So my in laws were in town a couple weeks ago. And my oldest son, who’s again 8, went up to my mother-in-law and said, gaga, does your passive income exceed your expenses? 

Mary Beth [00:13:46]:

Love it. 

Neela [00:13:47]:

And she was like, what? She’s like, I had to, I had to think about it. But I was like, oh my gosh. Talk about repeating what they said. 

Mary Beth [00:13:58]:

Oh my gosh. That’s like a proud momma moment though, right? Are you so proud? Are you so proud? 

Neela [00:14:02]:

Passive income. You got it, bud. Like you’ve nailed it. I feel like so proud also. I’m like, is it okay to ask somebody that? I guess, yeah. 

Mary Beth [00:14:12]:

I mean, it’s good. General, broad terms. 

Neela [00:14:15]:

Yeah, it is. Curiosity. 

Mary Beth [00:14:18]:

Doesn’t have to answer. Doesn’t have to answer. It’s fine. I come from a family who’s like, how much did that cost? Every time I turn around, how much did I cost? Would you pay for that? What’d you pay for that? That’s the culture that I grew up in. Everybody wants to know what everything costs. And I’m like, do you want to know if it’s a lot or do you want me to tell you I got it on sale? I don’t know which one. 

Neela [00:14:33]:

Is it a deal? What are we that I can afford to spend X amount or that I got a really good deal? I’m not sure. 

Mary Beth [00:14:40]:

It’s mostly they want to know the deal. Yeah. I love the innocence of kids asking money questions. I think it’s great. I think it’s really interesting to see how their minds work and also identifies where you might have work to do. Yes. Luca told me last week I need $700 and I can buy all of the tracks that I want. So then we had to talk about why he’s not allowed to have more tracks and space in the house. But so I think those are the things of like understanding. Just because you have the money also doesn’t mean that you should buy the things. 

Neela [00:15:13]:

Yes. 

Mary Beth [00:15:13]:

Which is interesting though, trying to teach it to a seven year old because he actually is doing great at saving. And I’m just like, no, you cannot have anything else that takes up more space though. Like, great job on savings and now I’m directing, unfortunately how I can spend it or, you know, like you have to sacrifice and get rid of these other things. 

Neela [00:15:28]:

There are other limits. 

Mary Beth [00:15:29]:

There’s other limits in place. Right. You run out of space for stuff. 

Neela [00:15:33]:

Yes. 

Mary Beth [00:15:33]:

So trying to not create hoarders as well. 

Neela [00:15:35]:

Yes. 

Mary Beth [00:15:36]:

But yeah, I think it’s a really interesting one. I love that. For your mother in law, let’s talk about the societal expectations that I know are changing, but the societal pressures that have been out there previously and that still kind of exists in terms of men being the financial provider. 

Neela [00:15:54]:

Yeah. 

Mary Beth [00:15:55]:

In a relationship. 

Neela [00:15:56]:

Right. 

Mary Beth [00:15:56]:

I’ve seen actually recently a couple articles popping up around the Wall Street Journal. Just had one a couple weeks ago that basically said the women are able to have successful careers because they have fabulous stay at home dads. 

Neela [00:16:07]:

House husbands. 

Mary Beth [00:16:07]:

House husbands. House husbands. It was a really great article. I love sending these ones to Brian. I’m like, look, not that he’s a house husband. I’m always like empowering and exposing what husbands do behind the scenes. But I think there’s still the societal tilt and lean towards expectation of men being the financial providers. And that article did address in the Wall Street Journal just kind of the loneliness of that role as a house husband trying to find community in that space. So the expectations are still there. How would you talk to your kids about that of understanding the pressures and what the expectations are? 

Neela [00:16:37]:

First of all, I just want to validate how hard and how confusing it is because even the Wall Street Journal article that you talked about, we know that in opposite sex marriages over 45% of households have a female breadwinner and that we have this rising group of stay-at-home dads. The figure that they use is 18% in 2021, which is up from 11% in 1989. So that’s very much a trend. Right. And yet that’s still fewer than 1/5 of households. 

Mary Beth [00:17:06]:

Right. 

Neela [00:17:06]:

And you know, we’ve talked a lot about this. It’s almost a corollary to the mental load that working moms carry. Because one of the husbands in the article talks about I’m still not the first call, even though we put me down as the first one. There’s this default of calling the parent and continuing to fight for that. And I think that if you are in a heterosexual relationship and you are the lesser earner or the non wage earner, you have to go over and above to really try and overcorrect it. 

Mary Beth [00:17:37]:

Yes. 

Neela [00:17:37]:

And set those standards of like, hey, next time I’m the one organizing playdates. Next time come to me first. And naming that, which also probably invites a lot of tough conversations and might have that person having a bunch of playdates with a bunch of moms, which it might feel lonely. 

Mary Beth [00:17:56]:

Right. The article profiled one of the husbands was dropped out of a playgroup. He didn’t get the invite. There was no follow through because. 

Neela [00:18:03]:

Right. 

Mary Beth [00:18:03]:

Moms just kind of cut him out. Of that opportunity. And so there are difficult dynamics to navigate on that side as well. And I think it’s really going to be personal. Right. It’s an outdated. It’s an outdated model at this point in time. In terms of men being the financial provider, women are graduating college a higher rate than men. 

Neela [00:18:20]:

Right. 

Mary Beth [00:18:20]:

So it’s likely to continue to become more outdated and more skewed. So understanding, okay, what works for your personal relationship. Right. That’s what it is, is being able to make the decisions that work for you, for your life, for your family, for your relationship. And that’s where going back to the communication skills are really important. The self awareness is really important. What do you want?

 Neela [00:18:39]:

Yes. 

Mary Beth [00:18:40]:

If you know that you want to be a father at some point in time in the future, you know the role that you would like to play in a family. Like those are conversations to have, ideally. Like as you’re getting married, as you’re growing and building a family together, to make sure that you have a conversation with your partner about what that role could look like or the role that you’d want to play. 

Neela [00:18:54]:

Yeah. 

Mary Beth [00:18:55]:

And it’s fluid over time. Right. There might be times when you are the provider and you know, quotes, and then there might be time when your partner is the provider. It’s not cemented in stone and that just because you are at one point in time, that it is forever. Plenty of partners, and especially from what we see, they trade off over time as you’re working in your career, taking breaks, et cetera. So I think understanding the dynamics of making choices that work for you and your family versus what society expects you to do and know that you’re. You’re breaking a mold in some ways, you’re changing things. Women have this as well. Like as we’ve climbed career ladders, like you’re a little bit in this minority of a group over here of doing things differently, it’s going to be uncomfortable. There is discomfort that comes with it. People will question it. People will question your manhood or your intentions or your masculinity. It’s stuff that does unfortunately come up. And if it doesn’t come up, you will still, based on being on social media, likely have those questions and those internal like concerns because you’re in your own head and you’re comparing. And so being able to have a support system in place and a good relationship so that you can navigate those things. When we talk about the house husbands of the world or those that are not necessarily the breadwinners, the part that I see which we talked about in other ways on these episodes. The fact that men aren’t as expected by society either to like, discuss their feelings. So I think there’s shame, kind of like this mom guilt as you build your career. There’s shame that way and then there’s the opposite shame for the males in terms of I’m not out there being the breadwinner, so there’s shame around that that’s being carried. So I don’t know if there’s a lesson in there, but I think the lesson is do what’s best for you and your family and screw what society says. 

Neela [00:20:27]:

Which is really it. Play your own game. The comparison game is so dangerous and you are fighting a lot of stereotypes. 

Mary Beth [00:20:34]:

Right. 

Neela [00:20:35]:

I love what you said about what works for your family unit at a given point. And it’s probably going to change. You might have one person who’s more aggressive on their career at some point. Somebody else who’s taking a step back. Maybe at some point kids are a little older, you can kind of step back on the gas or somebody else is going to step back. But it’s going to change over time. And I think figuring out what works for your family is so important and people will look at you like you’re crazy. When my husband left his last job because I got this job and I was like, I need to be able to travel, I need to be able to do this. Like, I need you to be able to pick up more slack. He left a very high level position and his boss, it literally broke his brain where he was like, what do you mean you’re off ramping? He didn’t even know how to have that conversation because it was so uncommon. He was like, my wife got this role and I want to support her career and we need more flexibility in our family life. It just like exploded his brain. He’s like, I don’t even know what to say to that. He was like, I can try throwing more money at you. But it wasn’t about money. 

Mary Beth [00:21:33]:

Yeah, that’s not it. Yeah. You’ll hit those conversations depending on where you’re at in your life. But focusing over the long run on doing what is best for you and yourself in terms of career, education, all of those things. You’re probably not going to meet all of society standards and you shouldn’t. Societal standards, when you dig into them, they’re really messed up. So. 

Neela [00:21:55]:

And they’re impossible to get right? 

Mary Beth [00:21:56]:

They’re not. Yeah. 

Neela [00:21:57]:

I mean, I even remember dating my husband and going out to eat and being like, I’m a financially empowered woman, so, like, I’m going to go my own way. But also it’s nice to be treated to a meal. And so, like, then you’re kind of caught in this in between of. I love taking other people out. So it’s a nice gesture to show love and appreciation. But I also don’t believe that it should be expected because that’s not fair. But then I’m also making my own money and I’m a proud feminist. So then should I be picking up the whole check and you spiral.

Mary Beth [00:22:23]:

You spiral. Is that just us or is that everybody? 

Neela [00:22:25]:

I don’t know. But is it you, too? 

Mary Beth [00:22:27]:

It’s me, too. Oh, good. Spiral. 

Neela [00:22:31]:

Nobody wants to feel like they’re crazy. And reality is, all of this makes you feel crazy. 

Mary Beth [00:22:35]:

You feel crazy. And when you talk about, like, society. Who is society? Who are we even trying to. It’s this obscure thing that we’re trying to fold ourselves into pretzels into. And that you actually will not be successful at anyways, because society is not going to tell you, good job. 

Neela [00:22:50]:

Right. 

Mary Beth [00:22:50]:

Or that you’ve met my needs. There’s no feedback loop there.

Neela [00:22:53]:

Right. So that’s such a good point. 

Mary Beth [00:22:54]:

It still comes down to your own personal happiness. 

Neela [00:22:57]:

There’s like, you know, ethereal concept of like, good job, Mary Beth. You have nailed it. 

Mary Beth [00:23:04]:

It’s not that. Which I had to work with the Mom Guilt, really. Right. I had a lot of that originally. And then I’m like, who, who is this that I…Society that was judging me. Yeah, and I think, you know, one of the other things in. In just thinking through money lessons, and this is sons and daughters, and this is just general financial literacy. But, yeah, I see it with Luca more. And I know. I see it with Ellie, too, actually. Luca just has, like, a more expensive taste, I should say. Shiny object syndrome. Right. I think that’s one of the things we do talk about a lot. This idea of, like, it’s in front of you. I want that thing. And so understanding and teaching about, okay, if you buy this thing now, how much are you going to play with it and what is that going to take away from you for your ability to buy in the future? And that future might be tomorrow when we go to this store or, you know, next week when we maybe are taking that Disneyland trip. So, yes, you can buy that, but no trade offs. Yeah, the trade offs and the shiny objects that pop up. And I see it a lot. It’s it in kids. And then seeing it also in teens and those in their 20s, there’s like gold chain components and all the expensive shoes and I’m not cool enough to understand any of the brands that I’m supposed to maybe know. I’m unofficially old. 

Neela [00:24:15]:

Don’t ask me anything. I’m sitting here in elf costume. So I don’t know. 

Mary Beth [00:24:19]:

I, I look at some of the stuff and like, you know, they have it right now. So preteens, 10 year olds, skincare in Sephora. There’s like all of this stuff at Sephora now for little girls for their skincare rout like you’re 10, but you go spend all of this money and now it’s like preteen makeup too. They’re all this expensive stuff. So those are the shiny objects that come out. It’s the same thing for. I was having a conversation with my nephew about gaming. I mean, you know, gaming. And I’m like, you spent how much on pretend clothes and weapons for your pretend characters? You what? My brain broke for that. But it’s a real thing. That’s how these gaming companies make money. But those are all getting long term impacts and hobbies and like fulfillment out of it. So understand. And I think that’s just one of the ongoing concepts. Every generation has their shiny objects that they’re spending their money on. But understanding the trade offs is important.

Neela [00:25:06]:

Yeah. I do think there’s one other point that I want to hit that I think probably acutely affects sons a little bit more than daughters. And I think that’s the role that privilege plays. 

Mary Beth [00:25:15]:

Yes. 

Neela [00:25:15]:

And I think about, I’ve got young white male sons, don’t know if they’re heterosexual or homosexual yet. But they are growing up with a degree of both material comfort. They’re not worried about where their next meal is going to come from. They are not worried where they’re going to sleep that night. And then they also have societal elements of privilege. Not to be apologetic for that, but to use it to just like be aware that it exists and do your part, I think to lift all those around you up as well, that what you’ve grown up with is like really special. And every kid should get to grow up with that level of certainty of where their next meal is going to come from, where they’re going to sleep that night. Having families that love them and there’s kind of a broad definition of privilege, I think. 

Mary Beth [00:26:05]:

Yep. How do you talk about that with them? Do you talk about it now or. Obviously the conversations get more complex as they get older. But how do you approach privilege with them? 

Neela [00:26:16]:

I try and probably don’t do a great job about it. But anytime a lunch comes home that hasn’t been eaten, a lunch that we’ve spent a lot of time on and talking through what goes into that of like, mommy and daddy take time to make the lunch. We take the time to buy the good groceries. We work hard so we have the money to buy the groceries and, like, taking it back. And that not everybody has that and everybody should have that, but not everybody does have that. And, like, I want you to recognize that this is. This is a special thing. This is a gift and want to make sure that, like, we don’t want waste and we want to also just recognize, like, how lucky we really are. 

Mary Beth [00:26:55]:

Yeah. 

Neela [00:26:56]:

Trying to do it in a way that’s, like, not guilt inducing. 

Mary Beth [00:26:58]:

Yeah. 

Neela [00:26:58]:

But perspective. Introducing. How about you? 

Mary Beth [00:27:02]:

I’d say it’s the same. There’s lots of talks around work and financial component and lunches and finishing meals. That’s one of the ways, I think, with us, you know, we do travel and then we drive around. We live, you know, downtown San Diego. So I think we approach it with more curiosity. Like, so when we do, like, those experiencing, like, homelessness, we see a lot of that if we’re driving downtown with the kids. And so not like, some people don’t have a place to sleep, like, you should be so lucky. Mostly like, curiosity, allowing them space to ask questions of like, okay, well, why not? Like, how did they eat? And really having conversation about recognizing. We do things in terms of, like, holidays of adopting families and picking out other kids and allowing them to pick out the gifts for them to understand, like, to teach them giving as well. So we try to introduce opportunities for giving back into their lives as well. Let me talk about that. So with the save jars, we do have a give jar too, like the Save Give Spend. So that give jar talking about how to utilize the money. And with Luca as a son, we talk about, especially right now, presidential elections. So talking a bit about, you know, there’s never been a female president. And so curiosity, allowing space for, well, why? And what do you think about that, Luca? And he’s like, well, that’s not fair. Why not? And so we talk about those things of just kind of stating a fact and then allowing space for questions and conversations and not skewing any way. Isn’t that terrible or anything. But just letting him kind of form his own thoughts. 

Neela [00:28:24]:

Right. Safe space to ask questions. That’s one of the best parenting pieces of advice I ever received. You get the hard question. The best thing that you can do is counter. Oh, why do you ask? 

Mary Beth [00:28:34]:

Yeah. 

Neela [00:28:34]:

What do you think about that? Because we might go into a complete different direction than what they’re actually thinking. 

Mary Beth [00:28:40]:

Exactly. 

Neela [00:28:41]:

And giving them that space to kind of talk about tricky issues, I think is really, really healthy. 

Mary Beth [00:28:46]:

Yep. Agree. That’s a really great one to end on is to be aware of your privilege. I think that’s a. Yeah, really strong one. I think that’s it. 

Neela [00:28:54]:

But we love you. We love you boys. We love you. Spend less than you make. You know, necessarily. 

Mary Beth [00:29:02]:

We love you boys and girls. Everybody. Non-binary. Yes. 

Neela [00:29:02]:

Make good financial decisions.

Mary Beth [00:29:05]:

We’re gender neutral around here. We love everyone. 

Neela [00:29:07]:

That’s true. All right. Thanks for listening. 

Mary Beth [00:29:10]:

All right, bye. 

Neela [00:29:13]:

Most people have formed helpful and harmful habits around spending, giving and Investing. Head to abacuswealth.com/quiz to take our Financial Architect Quiz and learn your three dominant money types. You’ll receive personalized guidance that helps you have a healthier, more balanced relationship to money.

Neela [00:29:55]:

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