Episode Summary

While not always an easy conversation to have, talking and preparing for the death of a loved one is incredibly important. On this week’s episode, we’re joined by Jana Davis, a financial advisor at Abacus Wealth Partners, who specializes in working with octogenarians and people in their later chapters of life. Jana’s approach to financial planning is rooted in empathy and radical candor, making sure that elderly clients are treated with the respect and dignity they deserve. Today, we’ll be diving into the importance of having open and honest conversations with our aging family members, making comprehensive plans well ahead of time, and the necessity of having a strong support team in place. Tune in as we explore the critical steps in end-of-life planning and share advice on how to handle these conversations with care and empathy.

What You’ll Learn in this Episode:

• The best way to handle the conversation around finances and health care planning for elderly family members
• What to consider when talking about fears and concerns for those elderly family members
• The best time to start planning for the death of a loved one and some signs to look for
• A few key pieces of information to generate (if they haven’t been already) to make for efficient and effective planning
• What to ask for when understanding the person’s financial portfolio
• Some of the trusted advisors to have on the team as you and your elderly family member navigate these waters
• Why estate planning and expense management is crucial as end-of-life approaches
• The importance of involving your children for the parents’ financial affairs
• How to guard again scams and elder abuse
• Why a balance between empathy and logic in financial planning must be used

Stay Connected:

• Connect with Jana Davis on LinkedIn or reach out at Jana@AbacusWealth.com 
• Connect with Mary Beth on Twitter, Instagram, and on LinkedIn
• Connect with Neela on Twitter, Instagram, and on LinkedIn
• Join the Abacus community by connecting with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and on LinkedIn

Transcript of the Episode

Mary Beth [00:00:14]:

Hey there. Welcome to the If Money Were Easy podcast, the show where we teach you how to expand what’s possible with your money. We are your hosts, Mary Beth Storjohann 

Neela [00:00:24]:

and Neela Hummel, 

Mary Beth [00:00:25]:

certified financial planners and co CEO’s of Abacus Wealth Partners. Today on the show, we are talking about how to prepare for the death of a loved one. 

Neela [00:00:36]:

And joining us today on our podcast, we’re delighted to have Jana Davis. Jana Davis has been in the financial planning industry for 20 years and is a certified financial planner. Marc de Excellence. That’s my best French impersonation. She is a partner, team leader and advisor at Abacus Wealth Partners, managing over 80 families. She began her work in the industry seeking to help others learn to give their money a purpose and specializes in helping clients enter work optional life and beyond. A segment of the clients that Jana serves are in their eighties and nineties, and she specializes in understanding the money needs that come in these decades. It is her money mission to make money discussions a positive family affair. So, Jana, welcome to the show. 

Mary Beth [00:01:24]:

Welcome, Jana. 

Jana [00:01:25]:

Thank you. Wow. What an intro. And don’t tell people, I’ve been in this for 20 years. Makes me feel old. 

Neela [00:01:31]:

You look great. 

Mary Beth [00:01:32]:

You look great. 

Jana [00:01:33]:

Thank you. 

Mary Beth [00:01:34]:

I’m 20 years. We’re young. We are young folks. 

Jana [00:01:37]:

Well, you got it. You know, I came in late to the game because it was a passion. 

Mary Beth [00:01:42]:

You’re so good at it. You’re so good at it. 

Neela [00:01:44]:

We’re so happy to have Jana join for this episode in particular, because she does have a specialty in working with octogenarians and people who are in their later chapters in life. And so I think can bring a lot of expertise in kind of a dicey topic, which is preparing for someone to die. How did you get interested in working with this demographic? You do do a really nice job in working with people in their eighties and nineties. And how did this become a specialty of yours? 

Jana [00:02:15]:

Well, I think it was actually quite organic. It’s not like I sought out this group as my group to service. It was more like, I think, the empathy side that I bring, but also the straight talk, because my older clients, so many of them, are now treated differently. And I’m willing to talk to my older clients like the adults that they are, the seniors that they are, with respect, but without dancing around some of the harder topics. And I think that’s where we click. And so I think it’s been more organic. Sounds a little weird, but getting people to the finish line and smiling along the way. There’s something to that that gives me joy to get them there. 

Mary Beth [00:02:57]:

Talk for a minute about how this demographic is treated differently. We know maybe as advisors, but those that are listening or have these family members, they might not be aware of some of those biases. 

Jana [00:03:08]:

Well, I mean, you got to take a step back. I mean, yes, we all have to talk a little louder for everyone, you know? 

Mary Beth [00:03:13]:

Right. 

Jana [00:03:14]:

We do those things when we start treating them like little kids, because it is the circle of life starts in diapers and often ends in diapers, and that’s true, but avoiding the conversations, being afraid to talk about the inevitable, just sets you up to fail. But you sit down together and you talk about the elephant in the room, and you get that out of the way, and then you open the space for just love and caring and presence. And so I feel like our seniors, first of all, we need to respect them much more. They’re so smart and wise and give them so much more time. But I think they start to be treated with kid gloves, and that’s not necessarily what they need. Think about this. Often you get to your eighties and nineties, car keys have been taken away from you, your friends have passed on, and you’re losing all of your independence. So the last thing you need is someone to get in your face and be like, let me do this for you. You need to allow them to be part of the decision making game until it really is obvious they can’t do it anymore. And I think we don’t take enough time to put ourselves in their shoes. 

Mary Beth [00:04:17]:

Yeah, I think that’s really profound in some ways, just in terms of the time. Right. There’s such a sense of urgency in our lives now. And I think that’s one of the things that’s almost missed with this demographics, is patience, that actual investment of time. So one, showing up with the attitude as you’re sharing. But I tend to notice we have patience with those that come into the world. We have to have that patience. But I feel like there is less for those that are transitioning out. There’s less patience there. 

Jana [00:04:42]:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it’s uncomfortable. 

Neela [00:04:45]:

Right. I like what you’re saying too, Jana, where speaking to people in a real talk way, you’re showing respect. They have a lot to offer, they have a lot to give, and so, by skirting around the elephants in the room, you’re not respecting them, and you’re almost taking away some of their dignity there. 

Jana [00:05:03]:

Yeah, absolutely. Right. It’s this kid glove mentality. It’s, oh, we shouldn’t talk about it. You know what? Get over yourself and do. And I also would say, to your point, Mary Beth, is, you know, we have the patience for the babies that come into the world, and if the baby’s crabby, we do this, and if the baby’s that. And yet, as we get our seniors, who start to have diminished capacity, you have to have the same patience, meaning you have to meet them where they are. If you have to repeat yourself a couple of times, or if you set up a meeting, they say, you know, I’m just not there today. No worries. We’ll reschedule. I’ll get something on. You have to have the same patience. You have to be willing to repeat yourself and follow up to remind them by emailing them exactly what you said. That’s part of our job. And I think it just shows them respect, but also gives them the tools to help them not feel embarrassed. So for me, my clients and I talk on a really level basis, and therefore they trust me to tell me when they’re struggling, and that’s how I can best help. 

Mary Beth [00:05:59]:

Yeah, I love that. I feel like there’s a lot of pride with this generation, and the more that we can just lift them up, hold them there. Right. Because when you hit 80 or 90, you’ve lived a full, robust life. You have some years and experience under your belt. And so showing up on their level, showing them that respect, allowing them to have that dignity, is really, really valuable. And I can see that you do that. 

Jana [00:06:21]:

My 80 and 90 year olds, these are a resilient bunch. 

Mary Beth [00:06:24]:

Yeah. 

Jana [00:06:25]:

You think I can’t learn anything from them and. But I want to help, right? I want to help, so I have to sometimes give them the smackdown. Right? 

Mary Beth [00:06:32]:

Yeah. 

Jana [00:06:32]:

Be like, hey, listen, Charlie, you’re not remembering these things. We’re going to bring in your son, who I met a couple years ago. Always bring in the family early, and we’re going to bring him in. Are you ready? Are you ready? You’re still in charge. But it’s time. And I get the head nod because we’ve developed that relationship. 

Neela [00:06:49]:

So, Jana, when do you start? So the topic is preparing for the death of a loved one. I mean, we’re obviously not talking about someone necessarily only being on the doorstep of death. When do you start doing this planning work? 

Jana [00:07:01]:

You’re better off not doing it at the doorstep because that’s the last thing you want to be dealing with, is meeting a strange financial advisor as you’re sitting next to a hospital bed. Please. So, obviously, the easy captain obvious is the earlier the better. I mean, if I could go on a crusade, it would be to get parents talking to kids about money when they’re young. And then, you know, the conversation is open, financed all the way through. And, you know, I’m meeting the kids as they’re getting to adults so we can help them. And it’s just this family affair of not being afraid to talk about money. That said, that can’t be the answer. That’s not how most of us are raised. So I say as soon as your parents start into retirement, as soon as your parents start showing their age. So, you know, if I put an age on it, it’s in their seventies for sure. But as soon as their focus goes away from work and goes into retirement mode, it’s a good time to really start thinking about what they want, what they’re thinking. That might seem early to you, but if you can tuck that in bed and only dust it off every once in a while, you’ve opened the space for all the rest of the things that really need to get done, like the loving and the discussions and the adventures. 

Mary Beth [00:08:13]:

So what does it mean to prepare? We talk about talking about money, right? You want to talk about money, but what does that look like? What are you talking about specifically? When it comes to these conversations? 

Jana [00:08:23]:

The first thing is to open the door so someone who, you know, you need to start getting prepared. Do you want to give a scenario where someone has, like, a terminal illness where it’s inevitable, or do we want to talk about parents? Because it’s two different stories. 

Neela [00:08:38]:

I think we should hit both. I think you hit on something right? Because sometimes, you know, we started talking about an older demographic where it’s inevitable, but the time might be shorter, but there’s probably a similar level of preparation that goes the other way. If it’s maybe somebody younger or with a terminal illness, where the concept of death is feeling a little more topical or prescient. It’s coming. 

Jana [00:09:03]:

Well, I can use a recent example. For me, it’s a client that just called me with a terminal diagnosis, and she’s way too young for this diagnosis. So the thing is, we’re like, we started with a priority list of things we want to look at. First thing is she has long term care insurance and what that can pay for to change her housing. But so we got the list together. We just sat down and had our little cry, and then we said, let’s get to work. And so we. We started with a list of the needs and the haves what does she have? What’s the diagnosis? What can we expect? So we had that hard conversation, and then we took a break. Right, then we talked about other things in the next couple of meetings, because now we want to set a. What are you capable of? So set the scale to what are the needs of. And for me, I would say if it’s really just someone stepping in is going to help someone that’s really diminished capacity at this point or knows they’re going to be, it’s get the inventory list done. That’s your assets, your liabilities, but your passwords, where are they going to be? Where are the secret little fireproof box? Get the list, man. And if nothing else, you’re ahead of the game if you have a list and don’t have to go look for unclaimed property ten years from now. 

Mary Beth [00:10:19]:

So I have a question on this, and it’s going into the weeds a bit. Where does one keep their list? How do you suggest that somebody prepares their list? How do they get it to those that should have it? Let’s be honest. We all know those that have, like the binder. There’s the paper, there’s. There’s thumb drive still, what happens with these lists? And, you know, especially when they’re on paper, they’re outdated. But what are you finding? 

Neela [00:10:40]:

Also, what percentage of people have the lists on a post it on their computer, just asking for a friend. 

Mary Beth [00:10:45]:

And then, but also, then you have to have the password to the computer. Do you remember to give the password to the computer? 

Jana [00:10:51]:

So, yeah, you know, that’s a good thing. You don’t want someone that’s trying to step in to help. You have to go on a treasure hunt and be like, okay, so if you see this code, you’ll find my codes here. You have to find someone you trust. I think, you know, for me, I have the most vital in a fireproof box with the key, and I have two people that know where it is. Plus, I have my. My computer has my main stuff. So I have two people I trust that I do dust it off every few years to make sure that at least some person in my life, usually the one that spends the most time with me, actually knows. So sometimes it’s safer to have it on a posted note, to be honest. But it’s a difficult one. You have to have someone you trust that you say, if all else fails, here’s my computer password, and here’s my one password, and here’s where you find my list. It feels very doomsday, but that’s your best way to do it, to be honest.

Mary Beth [00:11:44]:

Yeah. 

Neela [00:11:44]:

And it sounds like it’s contingency planning, but taken to another level. As advisors, we want to know the assets and the liabilities and everything to help you plan for the future. But it sounds like when you are preparing for the death of a loved one, it goes one level deeper because you need access to other aspects of somebody’s life. Are you able to get into their credit cards and see, you know, do they have airline miles that could be used or something like that? You want to get the passwords. You want some of maybe the physical things around the house. Like, it sounds like you just need another level of information. 

Jana [00:12:17]:

Oh, sure. And who are the advisors in their life? Do they have an attorney? Do they have an advisor like us? Do they have an accountant? People that have been doing the work that you might need to reach out to? I will say, too, preparing for a death you want to look at if get the advisor on board. With one of my clients, recently, we really dug into what were the medical expenses that have been starting to incur, and we found that there was a policy and an asset called a health savings account that they really could start using, and using more than they were to make it more comfortable for the end. So preparing is being willing to get in there and dig in to get nosy. I think we’ve talked about assets. 

Mary Beth [00:13:00]:

I think we’ve talked about assets, we’ve talked about liabilities. The income streams are really important as well. You can get your hand on the bank account statements, and you’re gonna look at the balances, but digging in and understanding what if there’s pensions or Social Security portfolio distributions? Where is the money coming from? Because that’s all the stuff you’ll have to track down on the other side as well. 

Jana [00:13:17]:

Absolutely, absolutely. And also, you know, as you begin to die, as the end grows near, you get obnoxiously expensive, and the bills have to get paid. So while you’re still living and breathing, the bills have to get paid. So understanding the cash flow and understanding, too, for me, like for my parents, I’m going to want to know, are they still paying for certain cable and insurances that are no longer necessary? And I can stop some of their expenses because they’re not usable anymore. And so, you know, it’s little things like that. None of us have all the time in the world to do it, but, you know, these are the things we’re cutting expenses is another thing that can start happening. 

Neela [00:13:58]:

So it’s almost like we’re getting a framework. What do we have, what are we working with? And then we can look to the next several years. And so then it’s a plan for how are they going to meet their bills? How are they going to make sure things are under control as they enter these later years? Probably early on, they’re able to do everything, but then over time, that shifts. And so it’s helpful to have that communication, like you talked about, with kids, with trusted individuals, so that when those capabilities start to decline, there are people to come in and help and support.

Jana [00:14:30]:

Yes. And, oh, my gosh, delegate, because this is a big job and shouldn’t be done by one person alone. When you’re helping someone to the end, when you’re walking with someone to the end, you really need a team. And what I say is, like, if you can get a snapshot of where they’re at and what’s coming in, what’s going out, now you have the foundation and you can be proactive where what mostly happens as the sky is falling is that everyone has to be reactive in fire, fire, fire. But if you can get the foundation and be proactive with things, it’s a lot less of a stressful situation you put yourself in.

Neela [00:15:05]:

Yeah. 

Mary Beth [00:15:06]:

You know, talking about needing a team of advisors, what have you seen for those that are the solo caregiver, whether you’re a partner and you’re caregiving somebody and throughout this life phase, and then, you know, maybe they’re leaning on you, but they’re doing it alone or a child that’s caregiving on their own, what have you seen the differences between those that are going it solo versus those that are willing to lean on others and bring in more community to help? 

Jana [00:15:27]:

I just think it’s a life changing experience for everyone, whether you have a team or not. But I think that what’s really hard to see is when someone is doing it alone, and I have seen it, is the isolation. Isolation is so hard. How I describe it to people is you’re really on a different orbit than everyone else around you. Even when you go out to get coffee and you’re in public, you really feel like you’re in a different orbit. And for those trying to do it alone, that doesn’t have someone that they can just verbally throw up on for a second because often they just need an ear. A good friend of mine just said goodbye to her dad just last week and put so much on her. And sometimes she just needed to tell what she was learning about how she was able to change him in bed and stuff and just not be judged, but just get it out. So I fear the isolation for those that really don’t have support and you can’t fix it for them, but you can be an ear for them and just let them ramble as long as they want. 

Mary Beth [00:16:28]:

Yeah. 

Neela [00:16:29]:

It’s so powerful. You know, it makes me think. Before my grandma passed away, I remember her saying something that really stuck with me and she said, most of my engagements right now are funerals. It was like doctor appointments and funerals. And so to your point of like, loneliness, in later stages, they’re losing people that are important to them. There’s maybe fewer and fewer people that they can turn to to talk through some of this. 

Jana [00:16:51]:

Yeah. It becomes a very lonely place. And so the best thing I can do, and I feel like it’s part of my job, is just show up. 

Neela [00:16:58]:

Yeah. 

Jana [00:16:59]:

I don’t have to get the one financial topic for a client if I can just show up. 

Neela [00:17:03]:

Right.

Mary Beth [00:17:05]:

Yeah. 

Neela [00:17:05]:

So we’ve talked a bit about almost preparing for the later years while the client is alive, but something that we spend a lot of time on as planners is estate planning. So how do you factor in estate planning when you are preparing for the death of a loved one? How do you approach it? I mean, it seems like that’s something that is important that we get right. We want to get it right before we know that death is coming. But when death is coming, do you approach it differently or is it something where you want to make sure you, you have that all dusted off and updated, et cetera? 

Jana [00:17:37]:

I think just the urgency when we’re talking about estate planning before any diagnosis or a younger client, it’s like, yeah, you know, this is really, really important and let’s get to it. And it’s a big deal. But as you reach stages of illness or death, it’s like, no, this is non negotiable. We are getting this done because I want it to be done the way you want it. The easiest selling point is it takes the pressure off of your executor. It’s not like, oh, I want you to rule from the grave. It’s like, this is really going to help the person that. Remember how you had a hard time naming the person that was going to help with your estate. Well, let’s make it easy on them. That’s my big sell point. But it is, it’s the urgency, which I know, again, captain obvious, but it’s non negotiable. Then my clients might be tired or such, but it’s like, okay, but I’m going to call you back later. In fact, the client I said that just had the diagnosis. The meeting was supposed to be about estate planning, and then she broke down and told me about the diagnosis. And so it was a, we’re not talking about this today, but our next meeting is definitely going to be the one that this is our priority now. This is our first one. 

Mary Beth [00:18:41]:

How do you sit with those and guide them through, like, when you have a diagnosis in terms of thinking through the care for those that either have family, how are they going to have support? Like, who’s going to help them navigate through this phase? Is it a spouse? Do you check on that? If there is caregiving needs, do you talk to them about possibility, whether it’s children or significant other, or if they need to bring in outside care, how do you advise clients? Because obviously there’s expenses involved in outside care and then there’s support. What role, if any, do you play as an advisor in those conversations? As you can see, that it’s not just the money conversation, it’s that they probably need more support at home or getting around or being chauffeured. 

Jana [00:19:18]:

Yeah, I’m probably the nosiest client advisor you’ll ever meet. 

Mary Beth [00:19:21]:

Exactly. Perfect for this interview. 

Jana [00:19:25]:

Often the times I’m the. I’m the sounding board or I’m the devil’s advocate. Like, okay, so you picked daughter number one. How do the feelings with daughter number two, do you care? You know, oftentimes then I want to meet them, too. So the clients I’m really, really close to, I’ll be devil’s advocate and ask them and be like, no, no, no, that’s not enough to say someone will step up. Let’s think about who. I get a little pushy on that because it’s too important.

Neela [00:19:50]:

Yeah. 

Mary Beth [00:19:50]:

Yep. Your clients are lucky to have you. Have we said that before? Yeah. 

Jana [00:19:54]:

I love my clients. I love my clients.

Neela [00:19:58]:

What are some of the things that you counsel, maybe your clients or the children dependents of your clients to look out for as your clients are aging? You know, there’s a lot of talk around elder abuse and passwords and scams. 

Mary Beth [00:20:14]:

Like AI scams. 

Neela [00:20:16]:

Exactly. You know, phone calls of your grandson is in jail and you need to drop this cashier’s check off in the mail for $20,000, et cetera. Do you give your clients or their kids some guidelines around that? 

Jana [00:20:31]:

Well, I do. I mean, it’s a wild, wild world out there for my clients. They have my business card next to their phone. And if someone calls them and wants to sell them something. They say, just call my advisor, and she’ll tell me if this is a good deal or not. I’m very protective, but even clients that are a little more protective and private, you got to bust through that. And I advise kids to do it. I know that you can’t give me the excuse to, oh, mom and dad, I don’t like to talk about money. I said, too bad, we’re going to talk about money because you kind of want your eyes on the accounts early. You’re not making them give up control. You start first baby steps, which you get access.

Neela [00:21:10]:

Yeah.

Jana [00:21:10]:

And you get eyes on it. It doesn’t have to be your full time job. You check it once a month, make sure you don’t see anything weird going through. I mean, we have to do the same thing as advisors. Weird client money requests. Even if they said it over the phone, I’m going to ask them why. Yeah, so, you know, get ahead of it by saying, first I want access. And it is a little like taking away the car keys to some of my clients, but you got to understand the importance of it. Some clients are self aware enough to be like, yeah, you know, I want someone to look over because I forget that I paid this, you know, and then the awareness ones are the forgetfulness and. Or just you start seeing double orders of stuff on Amazon, like, get their Amazon account, for crying out loud, because so many older clients are using that for their grocery shopping and their toiletries and whatever. And, you know, my friend’s mom, she. She double books all the time on that thing, and that was a heads up that, you know, we need to start looking. 

Neela [00:22:05]:

I feel like I’m not in cognitive decline, and I don’t know what the heck’s happening in my Amazon. So you can only imagine. 

Mary Beth [00:22:12]:

I’m constantly like, what did I order? The package shows up. And I was like, what could. What’s this one? 

Jana [00:22:15]:

When you can. When you can purchase the Tesla at the click of a button. We know we all have to be diligent for each other. 

Mary Beth [00:22:20]:

Yes. 

Jana [00:22:21]:

We have to watch out for each other. 

Mary Beth [00:22:22]:

Yep. 

Neela [00:22:23]:

So can you share a story, Jana, of this? There’s so much here, right? There’s the emotional, there’s the financial. Can you share maybe, like, an anecdote of when this has gone really well in a client’s experience? Like, what would be, like, a textbook good outcome for a client that was really well prepared?

Jana [00:22:42]:

Well, the textbook is that we get talking about the state documents early, even before they retiree. We bring in the kids and, you know, we have a family meeting at retirement or a little after retirement, so now it’s a family affair. And slowly, through the years, we start looking at who’s going to be the leader of the band when you need the help. And we start bringing him into a couple more of the meetings until slowly then the POA steps in and then

Neela [00:23:11]:

Power of attorney. 

Jana [00:23:12]:

Sorry. Power of attorney. I hate that we do that. Power of attorney. So now the one that we’ve. We’ve hand picked to be the one now also gets official and gets on there. And so the perfect way is then I start dealing with the power of attorney, but never letting the client feel like they’ve given up control until we’ve jointly decided that it’s time to give up control. Even taking your name off the trust of need be, I don’t think it always has to go that step. And now we start planning ahead with the POA being the one in charge. But it was all agreed on. Every step of the way was anticipated, spelled out, and so it was like nothing was a surprise. That would be my perfect world.

Mary Beth [00:23:52]:

Right. That’s like not including any toxic or unhealthy family dynamics and feelings and emotions that get involved. 

Neela [00:23:58]:

It’s perfect world. 

Jana [00:23:59]:

I know, perfect world. You asked me for perfect world. 

Mary Beth [00:24:02]:

Yeah, that’s perfect world.

Jana [00:24:04]:

You know, it never happens. Actually, I had one that happened pretty much like that. But the client I had was amazing. Just the most amazing soul on the planet.

Neela [00:24:13]:

Yeah. I think it’s a good point to just what you said, Mary Beth, is that, yes, there’s this textbook, but we all know how emotional money is, right? And especially you throw in the fact that there is uncertainty or there’s certainty that around death, all of that kind of shifts things. And whether we want to or not, we can conflate money with love. There’s, like, a lot of messy issues that can come up around these conversations. And so I like that you really approach it both from an emotional standpoint and from a tactical standpoint, because you need both. 

Jana [00:24:46]:

Yeah. It’s like the concept of the wise mind. Right? You have to bring both in. You have to bring your logic brain and your emotional brain and put them together, meeting in the middle of a healthy balance. You have a wise mind that’s working at its highest capacity, so you can’t have one without the other. You can’t be all logic because it’s cold and it’s not going to hit the client where it needs to be. But if you bring in the empathy and the logic together. Now you have the ability to progress forward.

Mary Beth [00:25:12]:

Yeah. Going back just for a second, we talked a lot about transitioning as, as we get older into what this phase of life looks like. But if we go back to terminal illness and somebody has a diagnosis, they have twelve months left. Let’s say they have young kids. I think that’s different from this one, right? If you’re older, your kids are raised and maybe have grandkids, you’re leaving a bit behind. But if you have that family at home or you have a partner, or you’re solo, like, what are you thinking about? And like, what are you planning for during that time when you know the clock is ticking? You have twelve months, you’re gathering all the data, are you thinking about life insurance policies? How are the questions different in terms of you’re leaving assets for the next generation, but how are you making sure your family is cared for? I think those are maybe two different things. If you’re leaving behind a pot of money as an inheritance versus making sure, like, you still have a family that needs to operate. 

Jana [00:25:58]:

Now I have to split my focus when it’s the client and it’s, you know, helping the executor, helping the heirs, you’re focused on the client. But here I now immediately have to split my focus on the client and the provider because I want to spend some time on where are we going to provide for them and really be of support. But the thing is, by doing that with the client, you’re empowering the sick client to know that they’re taking care of their person. So bring in the conversation with the ailing client. Make sure that they’re part of the decision making, because you’re keeping the power within them to make sure that we’re looking at everything we can to support the one that’s going to be left behind. I find that I then need to split it a bit, but it’s with my client in mind and bringing my client right along with me to lead the way.

 Neela [00:26:47]:

So if we have listeners, you know, and they’re looking at maybe their parents, aunts, uncles who are in their seventies and eighties, and they haven’t had any conversations with those people, where do you recommend they begin? How do they get started here? If they’re saying, hey, I see this, I see this as a need, I don’t know what my parents situation is. How do you recommend they get started?

 Jana [00:27:11]:

That’s a good question. Right. It’s always the family dynamic. For me, I just feel like you have to straight talk sometimes. Radical candor is the concept we throw around here. And it’s like, hey, aunt Fern, I want to talk to you for a second. This is a little uncomfortable for me, but, you know, I’m noticing a few things and I just want to make sure that you’re taken care of. Would you mind if we talked a little about what your plans are with who can help you with your finances or with your health? Have you talked to someone about that? Because I just want to make sure that you’re set. And if you’re set, I won’t bring it up again, you know, because I think the thing is that we’re afraid to ask or we just don’t think to ask.

 Neela [00:27:50]:

Right. And those receiving that don’t want to be judged. They don’t want to feel like they’re frail or infirm. So you probably both want the same thing, but you both have maybe slightly different fears around that.

 Jana [00:28:02]:

Right. You’re walking a fine line no matter what. It’s an emotional topic. It just depends. So how you approach it has to be. Think about what your end. Is that why you want to bring it up?

 Mary Beth [00:28:12]:

Yeah I would say, the intention before you approach it, what is your true intention in asking and being curious

 Jana [00:28:17]:

What is your intention is to make sure they’re okay, because if that’s your true intention, it will come out and, you know, you got to anticipate a little bit. I would rather do the empty cup mentality, but anticipate. Oh, because you just want my money.

 Mary Beth [00:28:29]:

Yes, you have to. I mean, let’s call it. I think that’s it. Especially with this generation. Like, that’s, that’s exactly what you’re going to hit. I’m full Italian. You hit it all the time. Like, you hit it all the time in our family. That’s it. That’s just like it’s passed down from generations. Everybody’s after the money. So I’m like, let’s call it. You have to assume that that’s what they’re going to think.

 Jana [00:28:46]:

Right. So call it out right away.

 Mary Beth [00:28:48]:

You’re going to call it out, but you have to prove yourself. I think there’s a proving of yourself to show that you’re looking out for the best interest.

 Jana [00:28:53]:

Yeah. I absolutely don’t care about your money, except that it gets you to, to the lifestyle that you want to the very end. How are you making that happen? How is your money going to get you where you need to go? I hope you bounce the last check.

 Mary Beth [00:29:06]:

Yeah, exactly. That’s good, right? Like, how do you get to zero?

 Jana [00:29:08]:

You want to talk about perfect world financial plan? Is bouncing the last check.

Neela [00:29:11]:

Bounce the last check.

Mary Beth [00:29:12]:

Then we know, you know, you did your job right. Then you know, you’re. 

Jana [00:29:15]:

That is the perfect financial plan. Gosh, you guys, I don’t know why we do this around money, because it’s such a tricky thing. But if we can break through it, right, and really have straight talk about it, take it for understanding that we have years and years of shame or, you know, it just depends on your money behavior and what you’ve learned, right? And it’s just gotta have radical candor about it, because it’s coming from a place of love and just wanting people to make the most out of what they’ve worked so hard for.

Mary Beth [00:29:42]:

Yeah. Yeah. I think the attention, the self-awareness, and going in with empathy, respect, that’s how you get this done. It seems like you have to show up with that empathy. You have to show up with respect. You have to show up just on the same level, willing to sit down. And then I think you have to show up again and again. It’s not a one and done, right. You’re just. You have so many at bats.

Jana [00:30:02]:

You have to keep coming up. The thing is, my clients don’t need me to say I’m so sorry. I am so sorry to hear this. I am so sad to hear this. I never say I’m sorry. Not to my clients that have tell me they’re dying. No. I say, what are we going to do about it? What do we want to do to get things done that you want get done? I don’t say I’m sorry. They’re going to hear that from everyone else. I mean, tell me how you’re feeling, and I’ve got a couple ideas for you, because they might not have a clue either. I’ve thought about this things. What do you think? So, no, I don’t say I’m sorry to a client that tells me they’re dying. I say, let’s go. 

Neela [00:30:40]:

Yeah. 

Mary Beth [00:30:40]:

Dana, do you want to be my financial advisor?

Jana [00:30:44]:

I’m at capacity. Oh, that’s so sweet. Thank you. That’s very. That’s actually quite a compliment. Thank you. 

Neela [00:30:53]:

There’s one quick story, just if we have time for it. Jana and I share an office, so Jana’s behind me. And I was on a call with my parents and their estate planner a couple of weeks ago because I’m their successor trustee. Because I’m like a money nerd, right. And something their estate planner said, which really echoes something that Jana said was families like yours, I’m actually not worried about. Doesn’t mean that you have everything figured out. But the fact that you’re all on this call together and you all want what is best for each other goes a long way and that there’s no questions or surprises. And so knowing that everybody’s got some kind of a team and making sure that that team’s in place and up to speed can go just a really long way. 

Jana [00:31:33]:

That’s right. It’s, it’s so key. I love a family meeting that talks about money for a second, even if it’s just a one time, because families are at least finding a way to put into words about money are ahead of the game. But I will tell you, I’ve been blindsided. But come to expect that even a family that looks together as soon as the death comes and the money’s out there now, free and flowing. Sometimes people change their personality. So I’m always hyper aware of my spidey senses are up. Where are we going to have to catch it? But it’s true. I think the key to all great financial successes are people that learn how to talk about that and understand their relationship with money on the themselves.

Mary Beth [00:32:17]:

Love it. Thank you so much for being here, Jana. 

Jana [00:32:20]:

Yes, thank you for having me.

Neela [00:32:22]:

Please let our listeners know how they can find you, Jana, because obviously your phone’s going to be blowing up. But how do they get in contact with the legendary Jana Davis? 

Jana [00:32:32]:

Well, I’m an Abacan through and through, so you can find me at jana@abacuswealth.com. I have my cheesy little bio up on the Abacus wealth.com site, so come say hi.

Mary Beth [00:32:43]:

And if you can’t find her, just call Neela, and Neela will point you in the right direction. 

Neela [00:32:46]:

I will turn around and hand the phone to you, so it’ll be perfect. Thanks, Jana, for joining. 

Mary Beth [00:32:53]:

Thank you. 

Jana [00:32:54]:

Thanks. 

Mary Beth [00:32:56]:

Thanks for tuning in to today’s episode of If Money Were Easy. If this is the year that you want to expand what’s possible with your money and you can use some professional guidance along the way, head over to abacuswealth.com/getstarted and schedule your free consultation. 

Mary Beth [00:33:35]:

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