Financial Planning and Infertility

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If Money Were Easy

Hosted by Mary Beth Storjohann and Neela Hummel

Financial Planning and Infertility

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If Money Were Easy
Financial Planning and Infertility

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Episode Summary

On this episode of If Money Were Easy, Mary Beth Storjohann and Neela Hummel unpack the emotional fabric of financial planning through the lens of a journey both personal and common – infertility. Together, they explore the emotional and financial complexities of fertility treatments, the importance of setting a budget, the different financing options available, and how to navigate the intersection of monetary investment and deeply personal choices within the journey of starting a family. Join the conversation and navigate these intricate waters with empathy and financial acumen on today’s episode.

What You’ll Learn in this Episode:

  • The importance of knowing what your insurance covers when it comes to fertility treatments
  • Questions to ask when speaking with your insurance company about fertility treatments
  • Why you need a budget when it comes to such an emotionally tolling topic
  • The reason you shouldn’t accept the first offer when it comes to the price for the medications needed for fertility treatment
  • How to go in with a plan so it doesn’t completely ruin your financial health
  • Other financial options you can explore instead of just taking the first one presented to you by the fertility clinic
  • Why you should consider the long-term financial implications when making your family plan
  • The importance of discussion the extremes should the worst-case scenario happen
  • Caring for your mental health and how to prepare
  • How intertwined financial planning and infertility planning are and how to set yourself up to stay on track

Resources Mentioned on the Show:

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Transcript of the Episode

Mary Beth [00:00:14]:

Hey there. Welcome to the If Money Were Easy podcast, the show where we teach you how to expand what’s possible with your money. We are your hosts, Mary Beth Storjohann 

Neela [00:00:23]:

and Neela Hummel, 

Mary Beth [00:00:25]:

certified financial planners and co CEO’s of Abacus Wealth Partners. Today on the show we are talking about financial planning and infertility. Welcome, 

Neela [00:00:36]:

Welcome, Mary Beth.

Mary Beth [00:00:37]:

Welcome. Neela, how are you? 

Neela [00:00:39]:

I’m good. How are you? 

Mary Beth [00:00:40]:

I’m lovely. 

Neela [00:00:41]:

So, Mary Beth, why are we talking about financial planning and infertility in the same sentence? Is that a disconnect? 

Mary Beth [00:00:48]:

No, there is a big connection there. And that if one is experiencing infertility or has some sort of fertility treatments that they are in need of their depending on the state that you are in and your insurance coverage is a huge cost that can come associated with those items. And so when it comes to infertility in your finances, I’ve worked with clients over the years for the expenses, and it’s come down to home down payment versus IVF. It can be tens of thousands of dollars. Some people spend hundreds of thousands of dollars. And so when you’re looking at an expense like this and tying it to somebody’s desire to start a family, right. There’s a lot of emotions involved. And so when you think about the emotions that are involved also with investing, how do you temper the emotions, especially for something so important as starting a family, and put some boundaries and financial limits in place so that you don’t break yourself? Because I’ve also seen the negative side of people go into a heavy amount of debt when it comes to this. 

Neela [00:01:47]:

It’s crazy. So we talk a lot about how expensive children are and children are expensive, and now we’re talking about even getting to having the children part and the expense and the mental load that that can put on a family or an individual. 

Mary Beth [00:02:02]:

Oh, yeah. I just said something to my parents the other day, I’m like, I spent thousands of dollars to create these children and now they cost me this much money. When they’re older, I’ll probably still say that to them, but they’ll get therapy, it’s fine.

Neela [00:02:15]:

Which, you know, speaking about that. And, you know, we talked before this about you sharing your journey. Cause you experienced some of this firsthand. 

Mary Beth [00:02:23]:


Neela [00:02:24]:

You’ve worked with clients on it and you personally have experienced it. 

Mary Beth [00:02:27]:

Yes. This is a topic near and dear to my heart, just based on personal experience and based on working with clients and knowing the emotional struggle that goes into it. 

Neela [00:02:36]:

Are you ready to share some of your story on it? 

Mary Beth [00:02:38]:

Sure. Yes. So just background on us. When Brian and I first got married, I think I have shared a bit about this. When Brian and I first got married, Brian definitely wanted to start a family right away. We got married. I was 27. He wanted to start a family right away. He was still in the navy. I was not ready. I don’t think I actually considered it. And so we waited. He had a deployment, different things. And so when it came time that I was ready to start trying. You know, what typically happens is it didn’t happen. Right. It wasn’t happening. You go to the doctor, wait six months, try for a year, then we’ll do the tests. It was over a year, and then we ended up going for testing, and turns out there were some issues. And then we were referred to a fertility treatment center. And then I started a very intense journey of trying to create another human life with other humans involved outside of my husband. 

Neela [00:03:31]:

And so you have two kiddos. 

Mary Beth [00:03:33]:

I have two kids. 

Neela [00:03:34]:

You went through it with both? 

Mary Beth [00:03:36]:

Both are from IVF, but I went through one IVF cycle. So some people are not as lucky as I am, but we went through one IVF cycle, ended up with. I’ll tell you, we end up with 29 eggs retrieved, went down to five embryos that we were able to freeze from there. So they put in two for Ellie, ended up with Ellie, froze the other three. I did get pregnant naturally in between there. Had a miscarriage from those three. We went through to basically transfer two more for Luca, and then one didn’t make it on defrost. And so they took the final embryo and transferred that one. So they transferred two. And then I ended up with Luca. So could have had five. Ended up with two out of those. 

Neela [00:04:17]:

Yeah, five would have been a lot. 

Mary Beth [00:04:19]:

Five would have been a lot. Five would have been a lot. Yeah. That’s the overview. But on that journey alone, though, from there, we ended up at IVF. In the beginning, they recommended Clomid, which basically increases the number of eggs. 

Neela [00:04:32]:

There’s a higher likelihood of twins, right? 

Mary Beth [00:04:34]:

Yeah. This whole thing, the amount of paperwork you have to sign to go through fertility treatments about what could happen to your children and twins and all of the risks that come with children, whereas people are just getting pregnant on the streets. I always joke my sister bumps into somebody and she can get pregnant, and then there’s myself, who has to look at all the fine print, of course, and then sign away, but end up on Clomid, which really messes with your hormones and your mental health. Did a couple of rounds of that didn’t work. We ended up with IUI, which is intrauterine insemination, did three to four rounds of that, didn’t work, and then we ended up doing IVF. And so through that all, which we’ll get into, there is a lot of, not necessarily fine print, but there is a lot of financials involved in that because you’re adjusting to one recommended treatment and running the numbers on whether or not it works, and then boom, you have another recommended treatment. And so running the numbers on that and then IVF is the huge one, and we’ll talk about the lending and fine details of that as well. But there’s just a lot that goes into these things. 

Neela [00:05:33]:

So then, for listeners who are potentially starting this journey, and I think now, too, you’re seeing this happening both with parents and people experiencing infertility and people who are looking to start families on their own without a partner, right. So there’s a growing demographic of women who are going, and, you know, they’re like, I’m not partnered up, but I really want to have a child. And so they’re pursuing it on their own. 

Mary Beth [00:05:55]:


Neela [00:05:55]:

From a financial standpoint, where do you recommend people even begin? 

Mary Beth [00:06:00]:

You have to begin with, basically your insurance understanding what’s covered and what’s not. If there is an issue from a fertility perspective, there may be coverage. Now, if you’re an independent person wanting to plan for potential future children, you likely will be paying out of pocket. However, there are some employers. So one of my friends actually an employer who would pay for freezing your eggs. And so in some cases, there are employers who offer that as a benefit as well. So depending on your employer benefits and your insurance company and where you are in your life, looking into coverage and understanding what’s available to you. So you get a referral, and upon receiving the referral, the recommendation, you basically call your insurance company and you understand your coverage. So what’s covered and what isn’t? Are diagnostic tests included? Are there prescriptions or treatments that are included? Is the consultation with the specialist itself covered? That’s just day one. You don’t even know. You’ve just been recommended by your OB to go to a specialist. That’s where you’re at. So the first thing is to go call your insurance company to get an idea. You won’t actually have all the details. They’re going to want you to have more, but you can get a high level understanding of, is anything covered under this? Who do I reach out to? What are the numbers that I do call when I do have more information. What requires preauthorization? So there’s a list of questions that you can ask when it comes to this, but it’s going to be the insurance company and your employer benefits might just reimburse you for some of those things. 

Neela [00:07:18]:

Got it. And so you talked about a couple of different steps, and there’s kind of like an if then, like, if this works, we don’t go to the next step. But if this doesn’t work, then there’s this other piece. And so you’re navigating those as the landscapes shifting? 

Mary Beth [00:07:32]:

Yes, exactly. This is my financial planner mind. This is how I went about doing it. This is what I recommend for others to do. You can go to the fertility clinic, the treatment center, your doctor, and you can go in blind. You can go in, here’s my insurance. I have no idea what’s going on. And they will usher you through the rooms, but you won’t know what’s in your back pocket at that point in time. And so I chose to go in with as much knowledge as I could financially to know what questions I should ask. You know, you call the insurance company before you go to your consultation, ideally. And so when you go to your consultation, you are going to hear a whole lot of information. You’re going to learn a lot. You’ll talk with the doctor, and they actually usher you from room to room. 

Neela [00:08:08]:


Mary Beth [00:08:09]:

So you’re going to go in. You have the people who check you in up front. You have the nurse practitioners who will meet with you. The doctor comes in, the doctor will take you into their office to actually talk about a treatment plan once they know what’s going on. So they’ll sit you down in the office. They’ll talk about. For me, it was the Clomid. If no Clomid, then IUI, it wasn’t like zero to IVF for us. Our plan made these things. And then from there, the doctor dropped us off in the finance office. There’s an actual finance office to talk to you about the money and what you’re spending and the different options. And so that was very enlightening for me as a financial planner, being in there. One, I’m overwhelmed personally, but really interesting. I had Brian in there taking notes. My job was to ask all the questions. Brian took all the notes. But going into the office, it wasn’t like a care credit situation, but they had their own lender. 

Neela [00:08:57]:


Mary Beth [00:08:58]:

They had their own terms. And so it was just so interesting to me, those partnerships from a fertility center and it’s making the treatment accessible. But those lenders and those partnerships, there was minimal regulation in terms of incentives, in terms of if the clinic is offering this lender, what kind of kickback are they getting? We don’t know any of that. 

Neela [00:09:18]:


Mary Beth [00:09:18]:

It’s not regulated to the extent of our industry, for example. So it looks like they’re doing great things to help you get access. But the interest rates, the regulatory side, just not really existent because I looked into it during the time. Granted, this was about ten years ago. At this point in time, my kids are eight and six. 

Neela [00:09:34]:

It’s kind of wild thinking about the visual of going to the doctor’s office and then to the finance office, because what a doctor would probably say is, I’m going to give you the absolute best care and I’m going to solve this problem to the best of my medical ability. And they are probably not thinking through it or even able to speak about it from a cost standpoint. 

Mary Beth [00:09:53]:

No, they’re not. They’re not able to speak about it from a cost and point. And you can get that your dentist or something, too, right? I went to the dentist this morning and he told me everything that needs to be done. And then he dropped me off at the front desk to talk about the insurance coverage and benefits. But what I found fascinating was that lending partner and the different packages that were offered. So when it came time to go the IVF route, there were different packages you could buy, which was you could pay for one IVF cycle, you could pay for three IVF cycles and then get a discounted average. You could pay for some sort of guarantee or some sort of money back situation. It was bananas. And this is a very reputable clinic that I recommended to people, so I loved it. And this is just the business of what they do. It was really interesting, and I know from experience, we were lucky in that we were one round of IVF and we’re able to have two kids off of that. Many people don’t have that. And I know people who’ve gone through four or five rounds of IVF and have broken their bank to do that. And so those packages are built for those people. But also, it felt like a gamble. They were presented to me. They were all presented to me in terms of which one I would want to go with. By that time, I was like, I’ve got one of these in me, and that’s it. I don’t know if I could have done multiple rounds of IVF. 

Neela [00:11:05]:


Mary Beth [00:11:06]:

That was not what I wanted to put my body through. But the financial perspective, the business perspective, and the emotional decisions that you’re making as a young want to be parent, I guess. So, that’s the interesting background of the landscape, and it’s amazing work that’s obviously done in these. These treatment centers. But it was still very eye opening from the sense of what I’ve always said from a health standpoint is you have to advocate for yourself and you have to know what you’re going in with. And so that’s where seeing those packages and the different things that were offered, I was all about the insurance, the coverage that spreadsheets going. I know people who have crowdfunded their IVF. You know, there’s getting loans for parents. Parents have paid for IVF for their children because they want grandbabies. There’s different ways of going about it, and not everybody’s blessed in that way. But it’s very interesting, the business of it.

Neela [00:11:53]:

The business of it, yeah. And being put to choices like that when it’s already a pretty emotional process of just going through it.

Mary Beth [00:12:00]:


Neela [00:12:00]:

And now you’re confronted with this financial component and almost this. Are we buying egg retrieval or am I getting boxing classes? 

Mary Beth [00:12:09]:

Yes. Yeah. Because then you have the egg retrieval, but you have the embryos. Like, well, do you want genetic testing for the embryos? Because that’s an add on. Do you want to know the gender of your baby? Add on. So then you have all these a la carte options that you could do additional. And it’s a crazy menu when you start to think of it and the decisions that are placed in front of you, again, that normal people don’t encounter when they’re naturally conceiving. 

Neela [00:12:30]:

But it’s also just interesting where, as women, it’s like, you spend your entire life trying not to get pregnant, and then all of a sudden, you’re, like, ready, and then now it’s not working. And there’s, like, a whole other mental load component to that. But as you and Brian approached it and as you work with clients who are approaching this, did you set a budget? Was there a dollar cap that you were willing to go to? You mentioned the add ons. You mentioned, like, the multiple rounds. How do people even begin to reconcile those choices with their financial situation? 

Mary Beth [00:13:02]:

Yeah. So it’s a budget. It’s a budget. And then it’s also talking about the extremes and knowing, okay, so what’s the budget? And, you know, $30,000, for example. I don’t know what the treatment costs are right now. And again, I lived in San Diego, California. So we’re just in a more… 

Neela [00:13:17]:


Mary Beth [00:13:18]:

Costly area. So we had our own budget for ourselves, and we had spreadsheets. Brian had Tricare at the time through the military, and so we actually lucked out in that Tricare covered the prescriptions, covered quite a bit of the prescriptions, and so we were able to get those. We had a spreadsheet. We shopped around, too. The clinic recommended a pharmacy, and we looked for three others in San Diego, and we called around and basically said, what’s your pricing for these things? And so the ones that weren’t covered, we went through, and we picked which pharmacies we were picking up the medications from. Wow. So that we save money, which is the research, and that saved us maybe $1,000 right there. And then in terms of the IVF, we had a budget for ourselves. Basically, it came from our savings. We were saving for it, but we didn’t know that was going to be the plan that came from our savings that we had set aside. So it depleted us in some ways. We did not go into debt for it, though. I was mindful of not going into debt, which, again, not a luxury that many people have, but we were able to save. So for clients, though, it’s a conversation around what’s the budget? Sometimes it’s like $30,000 to $50,000. And then worst case scenarios. So how many rounds do you think you’d want to go through? How much time would you want to put into this, you know, especially for the woman, like, for your body, what do you think you can handle? 

Neela [00:14:34]:


Mary Beth [00:14:34]:

And it’s literally been across the board. I’ve had people who, not necessarily clients, but people have advised who are willing to break the bank for it. They want a baby naturally conceived, through them. They will give up a house. They will give up the 401K. That is what they want. And they’re willing to go into debt. And to pursue that, that’s really hard because you’re not going to reason with somebody. I can’t reason, but all I can do is show, okay, there’s this, and then here’s what some of the numbers look like otherwise, and that’s it. I can’t advise. That’s one that’s really tough to advise on. I can’t advise you to not go this route, but I can say, here’s the numbers. Make the decision that’s best in line with your values. And then for others, it is setting that initial budget and then to having the conversation around. If you need to go for another round because then it’s talking through the packages. Same thing. Yeah. It’s like you do the two or three for the average. And it really comes down to this personal preference, values and understanding. You know, some people are like, I can only do this once. I don’t want to do it again, or I’m willing to adopt and I want to save my money for adoption if I have to go private adoption. And so it’s just really, really tough conversations that are really personalized and individual. And my role in that is to kind of hold space to ask the questions and let them reflect and then to just be able to advise. I don’t try to recommend in that area. I can recommend you don’t go into x amount of debt. I recommend that you keep x amount in savings. I recommend these sorts of things. Or here’s how to finance it, or see if you can get funding in these ways or if you’re going to do the lending. Here’s what to think about. But it’s really hard for me to say, I recommend you don’t go for another round of IVF. It’s not like buying a house. It’s just so much more personalized. So that’s how I’ve navigated it through the years. 

Neela [00:16:11]:

Yeah. So it’s almost like providing some of these guardrails and then the best option, considering the choice that’s being made. So if you are going to take on lending, make sure you’re shopping around and not just defaulting into whatever package that is recommended by the current facility. 

Mary Beth [00:16:26]:

Absolutely, absolutely. And that’s where, again, depending on where you’re at in a life stage and your financial journey, it’s such a scary and overwhelming experience. You default to what you’re told and what’s recommended to you. Like, here’s the recommended medications, here’s the cost. Here’s a lender. If you don’t have one, that’s what they do. That’s the extent of what they do. And it’s up to you to start doing your own research. And I took a very, very proactive role in our financial journey, which then gave me the knowledge to consult and advise others on theirs. 

Neela [00:16:54]:

Right. Not to draw a different parallel, but I remember getting a car loan from a credit union instead of getting the car loan through the deal.

Mary Beth [00:17:01]:

Yes. Yeah. 

Neela [00:17:02]:

I thought it was just dealers that did car loans, but you’re like, no, no, no, you can actually shop this around. 

Mary Beth [00:17:07]:

Yes, exactly. And you just. People don’t know that. You don’t know that depending on where you’re at in your financial journey as a consumer. So it was really interesting from that perspective and there’s a lot of details and we’ll link to a post that we have on it so you can go through the questions if this is something that’s impacting you of what you should ask your insurance company, but you’re going to be on the phone with them multiple times. I mean, that’s just what you have to expect is knowing that you’ll call the insurance company, specific treatments, every specific prescription medication that’s going to be prescribed, you’re going to want to know what the coverage is. Depending on the state that you’re in now, there might be coverage. It might be included, depending on your employer, coverage has advanced quite a bit over the years 

Neela [00:17:41]:

Yeah. What else? Anything else that we’re really missing? I mean, I think the importance of saving, if you can do it that way, getting creative in terms of like, who else in your life could maybe help with a goal like this? What else? 

Mary Beth [00:17:57]:

So I think in general, never underestimating the mental load that comes with this and the time involved, it’s very distracting. It is a month, if not years, long journey. And so there’s a couple books that I read. One was Bunless Oven. That was very helpful. There’s a new book that came out that’s called Stronger Than Infertility, that is a huge guide. We’ll link to it also in the show notes, but it’s huge resource guide that I wish existed when I was going through the journey. But the woman who wrote it, Heather Huhman, has a wonderful podcast on infertility as well. So I think looking to resources for your mental health is really important. And then when it comes to making your own financial decisions, you need to look at your personal financial situation. Looking at what do I have in savings? So what are my current balances? What’s your current debt load? You want to have your budget in place. So what, what areas are you able to cut back on to make room for upcoming payments? So if you don’t have the money in place and you’re looking to start IVF, for example, you’re likely not going to be able to save up the money for IVF, depending on the timeframe. If you’re like, oh, great, I’ll save up the money for IVF, it might be two years until you have that right. So you are going to be looking at financing in that way. So you will have to look at your budget and understand what will the payments be and how can I make adjustments to make those things happen? 

Neela [00:19:07]:


Mary Beth [00:19:08]:

So understanding that and also looking to adjustments of, okay, what am I stashing away for other goals? What am I spending on travel? Am I saving for a home? Am I saving into my 401K? Do I need to make adjustments in some areas of my life to save for or make these payments? And so looking to where you currently stand in those areas, and you have to make the decisions for yourself, but something likely will have to give. A lot of people don’t necessarily have all the extra money floating around out there to do these things. And so knowing what’s happening in your own financial life, where you currently stand, knowing the total amount that you will need to spend on this immediate treatment, but what it could be and what you’re willing to commit to. So if you have a dollar in mind, that’s wonderful. I do encourage you to have a dollar in mind. I really, really do. I know some people don’t want to think about that because if you hit that max, it’s defeating, it’s a little bit sad, it’s uncomfortable, and there will be a healing process that has to come from that. But I encourage you to have that limit because it’s hard. You can easily blow through it. If you don’t, you can easily just stay on the train and put yourself in financial ruin to start a family. And then we’re talking about the cost of children in general, though, on top of that. 

Neela [00:20:17]:

It’s interesting, like, to set that as a limit before you even embark on the process to some degree sounds really helpful. Just because you’re doing it before the emotions are high, before you feel like there’s a sunk cost component of we’ve already put all this money into it and could we just walk away right now? Something that you said that I just want to highlight is this idea of what else are you willing to adjust in order to make this goal possible? Like we talk about savings accounts and naming savings account what they are for sometimes makes them easier to save for. Having an account as general savings is less compelling than future family, if that’s a priority. And so every time you’re spending a dollar, you’re making that choice of where do I want this dollar to go. 

Mary Beth [00:21:04]:

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think the final thing I would say on this, especially when it comes to setting that number ahead of time, once you start this journey, you are as a woman putting a variety of hormones into your body in order to prep it for these treatments, depending on which one you’re going and your body will react in a variety of ways. We’re all still getting our period on a monthly basis. Your body goes through and your hormones go through and your feelings and your emotions go up and down. And so knowing that you’re about to ride a really big emotional wave, being able to commit before you are going through those treatments and getting some reasoning and logic kind of involved in terms of the parameters for your finances is really helpful and important because once you’re in it and once your body’s in it, you can be easily swayed or impacted or feel really vulnerable. There’s. There’s highs and there’s lows. 

Mary Beth [00:21:55]:

And being able to identify that for yourself, it’ll be easier to know you did the pre work as opposed to trying to set parameters while you’re also giving yourself shots on a daily basis or taking hormones in some variety of ways. So I’d say getting that plan in place before you actually start the treatment. 

Neela [00:22:15]:

Yeah, that’s really good advice. 

Mary Beth [00:22:17]:


Neela [00:22:18]:

If you could go back in time, to you ten years ago, it sounds like you did a lot of incredible planning, a lot of upfront work. If you could give yourself maybe one piece of advice, what do you think you would give? What do you think you would give? 

Mary Beth [00:22:36]:

So, okay, so I had a really tough experience that people don’t talk about what can go wrong during some of these procedures. And so during my egg retrieval, everything was fine. But in the days after we were committed to going to Brian’s college reunion across the country. I think you’ve heard this story. Yeah. So. So I overstimulated. I think it’s called OHSS. Your ovaries overstimulated, they swell, they’re inflamed. And basically my body, I swelled up. I ended up retaining pounds of water. My mom saw me and she’s like, you look like you’re pregnant already. I flew across the country because I didn’t know what to look out for. And we flew to Maryland, and I was calling our doctor from the hotel room. I was so uncomfortable. I was in pain. And I think looking back, I would not have taken that trip number one. And again, as much as I was trying to advocate for myself on the financial side, I didn’t know what would happen to my body. I didn’t know what signs to look out for, and I didn’t know what was normal, what wasn’t. And so I think that is what I would advise myself, is continue to advocate for yourself, ask more questions about the side effects. That’s a big thing that as I’ve gotten older and more wise, you know, what are the side effects? What are the, what are the risks to look out for? Because everything is shared with you under the assumption that we’ll all go right and you get a paper with some fine print, with a thousand things that could go wrong, but you’re, you’re reading that, not retaining it, and it’s also terrifying in some ways, and you can’t retain it all. 

Neela [00:24:10]:


Mary Beth [00:24:10]:

So with that, I think I would, I would advise myself to ask more questions about the side effects and negative impacts so I could truly understand what was going on. 

Neela [00:24:21]:

That’s great. And. Sounds awful. 

Mary Beth [00:24:23]:

Yeah, it was. I got through it. So I’ve heard worse stories. So I consider, I consider us very lucky and that our IVF worked. And I know some people still struggle and they weren’t able to conceive. And so I do feel like we’re lucky. But it’s very important to me that people advocate for themselves and have a financial plan when it does come to this. 

Neela [00:24:42]:

Yeah. Well, I continue to be impressed and bowled over by you. And also, I just know that there are a lot of people who are going to be listening who really value you sharing your personal experience and thank you. 

Mary Beth [00:24:52]:

Thank you for asking. And so, link to the show notes, though we will have a post where all of the questions you should ask your insurance are going to be in there, information on reading the fine print for your lending, et cetera. So if you want a more deep dive, we didn’t go through everything on this because you would need to take copious notes, but we’ll make sure to link those so you have access. 

Neela [00:25:11]:


Mary Beth [00:25:12]:


Neela [00:25:13]:

Thanks, everyone for listening. 

Neela [00:25:16]:

Thank you for listening to today’s episode of If Money Were Easy. If you’re looking for more information on how you can expand what’s possible with your money, head to That’s for more analysis and resources created by our team.

Neela [00:25:58]:

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